Author Topic: Anybody using forward thumb pitches? (Read 13182 times)

johns811 · « **on:** September 11, 2009, 12:07:18 AM »

Ron Clifton web site he talks a lot about not squeezing the ball and possibly using forward thumb pitches. My spans is pretty small (4 3/8"). For the heck of I took an old ball I wasn't using from 0" to 3/8" forward and not having any trouble getting out of it. I think I can go to 1/2" if I wanted.

Anybody have any experience with this? The ball did seem easier to hold without squeezing and I can still get out of it OK. Now if I can just learn a good relaxed arm swing. 30+ years of squeezing the ball is not an easy habit to break.

triggerman · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2009, 08:11:46 AM »

I've used 1/4" forward 1/8" lateral left for over 7 years never a blister, callous or anything, get out of the ball very clean
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Triggerman

F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud

Lane #1 Baby

qstick777 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2009, 09:04:10 AM »

^^^^

True, but most drillers use the "chart" for determining the starting pitch.

Once you get to a span over 4", even the tightest reading moves to using reverse.

In my experience, unless you specifically request it, or are having major problems with your thumb or release, no driller is going to change your pitch to forward.

That is to say, you may be fully capable of using forward pitch in your thumb, but that doesn't mean a driller is going to suggest it - because conventional methods say that reverse is what is "standard."

Thumb angle chart from Jayhawk.

Cleaned up version.

Side note: I wonder how this got started. Did somebody purposely try forward instead of reverse? Did a driller move the table in the wrong direction and accidentially drilled forward instead of reverse and the customer came back and said the ball felt much better than the others?

azguy · « **Reply #3 on:** September 11, 2009, 09:39:21 AM »

I use 1/8 fwd on one ball and 1/4 on another, both with 1/8 left and love the feel on both. Now you may ask, why two different fwd's ? One ball has a slightly larger thumb than the other. I have in the winter, a thumb swelling issue, so I tried these combos and found, for me, these to work the best. No squeezing issues, no hang ups issues and used at the right time, they actually feel the same.

I know they shouldn't but I feel with the thumb swelling, the different pitch makes it feel the same. I can't prove any of it just know how it feels for me.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net

Strider · « **Reply #4 on:** September 11, 2009, 12:43:23 PM »

I'm at 5/8" forward, but of course I work with Ron.

Absolute is correct that you must use what is right for you and your hand.

However, I would bet that a great majority of bowlers (even good ones) squeeze the ball far more than they think. They have been doing it for so long that it feels natural. If they learned to relax their grip, they would use less reverse/more forward than they do currently. I still have an old ball with 5/16" reverse that I wonder how I threw all that time.
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Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #5 on:** September 12, 2009, 09:13:01 PM »

My question for Johns811 is are you still getting the same thumb early release and same amount of hook and revs? Or are you ending up with a more penetrating less hooky type roll?

Did you slightly shorten your span or leave the same as before?

A comment....
A span of your length would only call for 1/16 reverse anyway by the Bill Taylor methods and a move from 0 which was almost (Bill Taylor span chart) to 1/4 forward would be a normal move for many "new style bowlers" who seem to want to play a more direct line than the earlier thumb release area bowlers of the past.

??

REgards,

Luckylefty

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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

johns811 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 12, 2009, 10:51:22 PM »

Kept span the same and change of ball reaction has been an improvement. I'm getting a better roll on it because I was dropping the ball often prior to the change. 2nd time out ball is feeling very comfortable.

quote:
My question for Johns811 is are you still getting the same thumb early release and same amount of hook and revs? Or are you ending up with a more penetrating less hooky type roll?

Did you slightly shorten your span or leave the same as before?

A comment....
A span of your length would only call for 1/16 reverse anyway by the Bill Taylor methods and a move from 0 which was almost (Bill Taylor span chart) to 1/4 forward would be a normal move for many "new style bowlers" who seem to want to play a more direct line than the earlier thumb release area bowlers of the past.

??

REgards,

Luckylefty

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

NY Mike · « **Reply #7 on:** September 14, 2009, 09:01:41 AM »

I'm at a total loss when it comes to pitches, I have no knowledge of mine. I understand reverse pitch will get you out of the ball earlier, will forward pitch (being in the ball longer) get you more revs ?

JessN16 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2009, 12:48:44 PM »

Forward is a miracle fix only if it fits your hand. I tried it for a year or two and would have a monumentally disastrous hang-up about once every 6-7 shots. My last experiment with it was this past spring, and I very nearly hurt myself badly one night and decided that was it. I'm back to 1/8 reverse, although I can tolerate down to 0 if I'm careful.

It's not just a simple matter of "you have to quit grabbing the ball," either. If your thumb isn't built to do forward pitch, it's never going to happen, nor should it. Ron is sensible about this stuff but there are a few forward-pitch devotees around here who think it represents bowling's holy grail. Try it -- it may be for you, it might not, but if it's not you don't need to force it.

Jess

Lillen · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2009, 01:00:45 PM »

Chris Barnes does one thing unique with his choice of grips. Yes, grips. He uses a certain grip for his strike balls and a different grip for his spare balls. His strike ball grip is tailored to be released in a number of ways. By using a semi-finger tip grip, he is able to roll out of it, hit it hard or even spin it when the conditions call for it. Barnes uses 1/16" forward thumb pitch, which allows him to stay very relaxed with his grip pressure. This enables him to have great feel at the release point so he can throw the ball any way he sees fit.

Barnesâ€™ spare ball is actually 5/16" longer in span (relaxed fingertip grip) and he increases his reverse pitch (1/8") in his thumb. This allows him to break his wrist back to â€œkillâ€ the amount of revolutions and allows him to stay behind it to make the ball roll more end-over-end. This grip and release technique limits the chance for the ball to change direction, which eliminates the chance of the lane coming into play. In shooting at most spares, thatâ€™s what the game is all about.

http://www.kegel.net/library/foArticles.asp?iKodYazi=45

Edited on 9/14/2009 1:02 PM

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2009, 05:08:23 PM »

Interesting comments on Barnes...and he SURE is versatile there is NO doubt about that.

IF relaxed why does he have to use such a tight taping of his thumb hole or we hear...bump bump on the lanes?

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS I am a bump bumper myself except when I am bowling well....
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Strider · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2009, 06:06:51 PM »

Interesting article Lillen, but since the article was from 2001, it's hard to say if he still does that.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive

Strokewiththelefthand · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2009, 07:01:00 PM »

Being double jointed in the thumb I've done and been comfortable with both. The most extreme being 1/2 reverse, and 3/8 forward. My current thumb pitch is 3/8 forward and 1/4 right. I find the forward to be the most comfortable. It allows me to relax my thumb and get out of the ball clean and stay under it. This also helps my spinning issue. Of course the pitch corresponds with the span, flexibility and dexterity of the bowlers thumb.

r534me · « **Reply #13 on:** September 14, 2009, 08:44:18 PM »

I might have missed this but I didn't see anyone writing about pitching their fingers away when they use forward thumb pitches. I believe when you use forward in your thumb you move the fingers away at the same time. I pitch the fingers away and thumb forward and I can get the ball off my hand very cleanly especially since I roll my wrist at the point of release. When I had it at 0 and 1/8 reverse I would drop the ball when I did that(converted release this summer).

J_w73 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 15, 2009, 12:29:34 PM »

quote:
Forward is a miracle fix only if it fits your hand. I tried it for a year or two and would have a monumentally disastrous hang-up about once every 6-7 shots. My last experiment with it was this past spring, and I very nearly hurt myself badly one night and decided that was it. I'm back to 1/8 reverse, although I can tolerate down to 0 if I'm careful.

It's not just a simple matter of "you have to quit grabbing the ball," either. If your thumb isn't built to do forward pitch, it's never going to happen, nor should it. Ron is sensible about this stuff but there are a few forward-pitch devotees around here who think it represents bowling's holy grail. Try it -- it may be for you, it might not, but if it's not you don't need to force it.

Jess

I agree .. I tried forward and even zero and couldn't get it to work. I had to change my release too much or make sure my thumb hole isn't snug (front to back) to make sure I got out of the ball and not hang up and rip my thumb off. I went to 1/8 and still couldn't get out clean. This doesn't work for me as I change my release throughout the night as the shot changes. My thumb is also pretty long so that may have something to do with it. I did shorten my span up quite a bit recently.. Had to go to 3/8 reverse and that worked the best for me. I have done tests to see if I squeeze to keep the ball on my hand and I do not. I can have my hand completely relaxed with the ball hanging and the ball with not come off my hand.

forward may work for some or may work with practice but it isn't worth the risk of having a mental lapse and throwing it through the ceiling, ripping my thumb off , or throwing myself down the lane.

also on a side note.. I think to be successful with forward in the thumb you need to have reverse in the fingers.. I am at 0 in my fingers so that may have something to do with my troubles. I believe more reverse in fingers allows more forward in the thumb.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Edited on 9/15/2009 12:32 PM

Author Topic: Anybody using forward thumb pitches? (Read 13182 times)

johns811

Anybody using forward thumb pitches?

triggerman

Re: Anybody using forward thumb pitches?

qstick777

Re: Anybody using forward thumb pitches?

azguy

Re: Anybody using forward thumb pitches?

Strider

Re: Anybody using forward thumb pitches?

LuckyLefty

Re: Anybody using forward thumb pitches?

johns811

Re: Anybody using forward thumb pitches?

NY Mike

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JessN16

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Lillen

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LuckyLefty

Re: Anybody using forward thumb pitches?

Strider

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Strokewiththelefthand

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r534me

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J_w73

Re: Anybody using forward thumb pitches?