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Author Topic: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system  (Read 49584 times)

J_w73

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Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« on: February 21, 2013, 11:43:09 AM »
Anybody know anything about this fitting technique. Looks like it is just an offset thumb. (And I know, by definition of how to measure a grip layout, an offset thumb doesn't technically exist.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX6-k7XC97s

http://billhallbowling.com/index.php?id_product=1&controller=product
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dougb

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2013, 01:38:18 AM »
Bill is the expert here, but I can tell you from my own experience that the Tri Grip does not feel the same as the CLT or Collier Grip.  I've tried all of these and the Morich fitting system too. The Tri Grip is the most natural fit I've found.  It takes all of the weight out of the ball for me... feels like I'm wearing a glove instead of holding a 15lb orb. 

I was lucky to have my ball laid out by Bill himself, but now my shop (Pinole Bowlers Supply in CA) offers the Tri Grip and I'm getting my stuff converted. 

Brickguy221

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2013, 01:46:31 PM »
I am not awaare of anyone in Oklahoma City that does this tri-grip thing.
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Stan

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2013, 09:34:38 PM »
Would like to try this out, but $200 is way to much without any knowledge of what you are buying.

BUZZZZZ

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2013, 08:04:42 PM »
In my opinion if it is indeed a night and day comparison then i need to make that distinction for myself because in the end it is the feel of the bowler. Not disputing that this difference exists but need to draw my own conclusion for my preference. I apologize if i was incorrect. It is not my intention to discredit anyones hardwork and inventiveness. I am a Bowler who is always searching for that extra something.  8)
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scubachris

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2013, 06:58:03 PM »
What shops in Hawaii have it?
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komike

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2013, 08:01:51 PM »
What shops in Hawaii have it?


Al Thomas
Somoff Pro Shop
PO Box 763
Eleele, Hi. 96705

blesseddad

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2013, 03:56:21 PM »
Does anybody know if there is someone in the Vegas area that uses/will use the Tri-Grip fitting? I would be very interested in it...

ericfox4

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2013, 04:35:41 PM »
anybody in ohio have it?

Impending Doom

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2013, 04:45:50 PM »
My question is how does it affect your ball roll?

J_w73

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2013, 06:19:58 PM »
I had a ball punched up with the Bill Hall tri-grip method.  Measuring the ball after it was drilled I found that the lateral finger pitches ended up being about 3/16 left of what was spec'd on my drill sheet.  When I measure the pitches on my CLT they almost match what was on my spec sheet.  I also learned that the standard oval degree is 60 deg if your thumb is spec'd at 45 deg with the mo rich fitting technique.  Spans on the drill and on the spec sheet did not change.  The thumb pitch looked like it went from a spec of 1/2 rt, 7/16 reverse to 5/8 right, and 3/8 reverse.  It almost looks like the thumb pitches were drilled on a line from the thumb through the middle finger.  When I measure there I seem to get the 1/2 right and 7/16 reverse.  The driller did align the inserts along my CLT.  The feel of the ball is alright and came off my hand pretty well with minimal bevel. I've been through so many grips though that it just feels like one of the many grips I have tried. Nothing too special.  I don't know if I am a fan of the lateral finger pitches as I get pretty far inside on the ball and this seems to put a lot of stress on the right sided of my fingers and nails. Primarily my middle finger.  I can't give much info on the roll or reaction because I had a spare ball punched up.  So that is my synopsis of what I found.  If anyone can make anything out of it please send your input. If you have any more questions for me, let me know.
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Pinhammer

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2013, 09:07:29 AM »
I got the video from Bill and have used it on a couple of customers to see if they like the drilling technique.  All of them have brought their other balls in to have them plugged and done using the tri grip.  I have tried several offset drillings but this one is the most comfortable.  All my customers using is said they felt like the ball rolled better and continued through the pins much stronger than their other balls. I have watched all of them throw both and I did notice cleaner releases on all of them. One of them has an identical ball with the exact same layout as the one with the Tri Grip on it.  When throwing both of them the Tri Grip ball hooks more because he is able to stay behind the ball more than his original release. So far I am impressed with it.
Pinnacle Pro Shop
Clarksville, TN 37043

thirtyclean

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2013, 09:54:08 AM »
We have converted at least 25 or more regulars in Chicago Bowlers Shop, BZ Niles (Rich Blake. proprietor) and you can tell the different reaction and consistently better release on these bowlers. I have tried it (have not fully converted over) but I can tell the different feel in my hand. Since Rich has two shops, it was well worth the investment for Bill's system.
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Gizmo823

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2013, 03:13:08 PM »
I'm highly skeptical about not being able to copy it.  Obviously someone like Bill with his reputation has to be taken seriously, so even though I'm skeptical, if he says it can't be copied, I'm very inclined to take his word on it.  However, I've done this long enough that it's at the very least confusing.  Like Rico said, if it's done on a mill, it can be copied.  The only thing I can think of is that if you don't know the technique, you may not know where to measure the pitches from, and that could be the kicker.  In a regular drill, all pitches are measured from the grip centerline.  In a CLT drilling, when measuring pitches after the line transfer, 1/2 left won't mean the same thing as it does when doing a regular drill.  This means that if given a measurement spec sheet, you won't be able to copy it without knowing the technique it was drilled by, but if you have the actual ball and measure everything manually, there's no way in my mind that you would be unable to copy that.  Again, coming from a guy of Bill's stature, with his reputation, it would be completely ignorant not to trust or believe him.  But depending on your perspective, it could be a little misleading. 

Yes, given a special technique and only numbers, I would definitely believe I wouldn't be able to copy it, but given the actual ball, a couple pitch gauges, and a ruler, I'd be really surprised if I couldn't duplicate it.  There's also only so many ways to drill something.  Again, back to what Rico said, if it can be drilled on a mill (especially with no special equipment required), it can be copied.  I do not know the method, but I would have to think that if you're good at fitting people, a comfortable, functional fit should be able to be achieved with no special process or techniques.  1/2 left for a standard drill, or measuring from an unmoved centerline will be different than 1/2 left on a CLT, BUT, it can still be measured based on a standard drill and adjusted for.  1/2 left in the middle finger for a righty using the CLT technique when measured from a standard drill standpoint won't read 1/2 left, it will read something in the neighborhood of 7/16 left and 1/16 forward on a pitch gauge, but given the angle and a little math, you could calculate it out.  Meaning that if the CLT for the middle finger was say 10 degrees left of a standard static centerline 1/2 calculates to a decimal number of .500, which is a required calculation for entry into the digital pitch readout on a mill in the first place.  If rotated 90 degrees to the left, 1/2 left becomes 1/2 forward, so you have a basis for mathematical calculation.  10 degrees out of 90 equals a percentage of .111 repeating, equaling a rounded percentage of 11.1.  If the 1/2 left is then rotated 11.1% left, your resulting numbers are a mildly rounded .045 change per 10 degrees, making 1/2 or .500 left in a 10 degree CLT a converted .455 left, and .045 forward for a standard static centerline drill.  Now, .500 left of a 10 degree CLT deviation from standard static centerline isn't going to be exactly .455 left and .045 forward due to rounding, but the difference is in the thousandths, and given that it's hard for people to tell a difference of an entire 1/16 in pitches (.063), there's no way possible to feel the difference. 

So in summation, it CAN be copied, though for 100% accuracy, you would have to know the technique.  However, an experienced, technically solid driller should be able to get you close enough that you'd have to be a complete princess to feel the difference.  I once drilled a ball for a guy whose middle finger and ring finger were fused together all the way up to the base of his fingernails.  Obviously not being able to get accurate or definitive fingersizes (it was a conventional drill), and having no basis on which to determine lateral pitches, being that the holes had to overlap enough to keep the grooves at the front and back from cutting him, but far enough apart to still create a grip, I had to completely eyeball it, and I completely nailed it.  Now if I can do that, I'd have a really hard time believing that I couldn't copy an already existing fit with all the tools necessary at my disposal.  Whether the drilling technique is needed or not, I don't know.  It may just be an easier way for other pro shop ops to fit people better, or a more accurate, repeatable standard. 
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JohnP

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2013, 07:13:07 PM »
Here's a quote from Bill Hall from bowlingchat.net.  --  JohnP

Quote
It amazes me how many posts there are by those that have not even worked with the Tri-Grip Method. So let me put this another way before I close out my end of this conversation. If you look up any type of kinesiology it states that "if" the thumb is the axis point that the linear lines of the hand and the vector in which they create will therefore be part of the maximum strength with the least amount of effort if those lines are based "solely" on the radius of the object that is being gripped in the hand. That is simple enough to understand. Degree of pitches make a huge difference in what is established for the hand's motion and natural "shape". That also is simple enough.
As for the Tri-Grip and the "dual angle" layout, it is established with a mere 5/16" additional movement towards the positive axis point than what you would do with a standard T grip.
For those that have understood and taken the Tri-Grip into your shops, I truly appreciate it. For those that haven't or won't I respect your decisions as well. But one final thought, since a pin placement can change the leverage of a core based on a axis point, and the thumb is the axis point of the hand, then why wouldn't a different layout create a different leverage for the hand? Seems simple enough. I thank you all for your time and for me the subject is closed. The true test is those that have moved forward in offering an alternative to their players and customers.
Thank you,
Bill Hall

bullred

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Re: Bill Hall Tri-Grip fitting system
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2013, 12:18:43 AM »
All you folks got to remember that people like Bill Hall and Mo need to come up with some kind of "new" BS every once in a while to keep their "guru" status.

Moral of the story is, if you have a comfortable grip, stay with it.  If you have an uncomfortable grip, find another ball driller.

There is no "magic" grip