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Author Topic: Drill Press/Mill Machine?  (Read 15115 times)

Bar5003

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Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« on: December 03, 2006, 09:43:17 AM »
I am looking at purchasing some pro shop equipment (maybe) and i was wondering if someone can explain the difference between a Drill Press and a Milling Drill (if those terms are even correct?)

When i used to drill i worked on an AMF Drill Press with a Vacu-Jig and digital readouts

Also can someone explain the different jig systems to me? 2 point jig? milling jig? and how do these work with putting pitches in?

ANY information is great as this is an area where i am clueless!

Thanks in advance!
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Mike Austin

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 01:17:08 AM »
If you used a Vacu Jig on a mill/drill, then you started off at the top.  All the other equipment will seem like junk compared to that set up.

I know, that is what I use.  I am interested in the Ovalmatic type set up, but would not think of running a pro shop without a mill/drill.

2 point jig holds the ball down with two clamps.  Great for 25 years ago, primitive now, specially compared to Vacu Jig.

You put pitches in pretty much the same, priniciples are similar.  You can't drill oval holes, at least not precisely and easily without a mill/drill.

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BrunsNick

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 01:21:54 AM »
Don't hate on the Rudell, Mikey!

As long as the pitches are dead nut, then no need to upgrade. In the 3+ years of being in the pro shop biz, I've had ONE person come to me needing a milled hole. (he had specs)

I'm a master of shaping ovals, and once I have that set, I make molds and go from there.
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Traumatize

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2006, 01:37:07 AM »
Sorry Mike but i'll take a Jayhawk ovalmatic machine over a Vacu-Jig anyday.  The Vacu-Jig I worked on was garbage so I may be a little biased.  I cannot say enough about the ovalmatic I drill on now.  Extrmely preice and very easy to use.  The only tricky part is actually drilling ovals themselves, but I use a mold so I don't have to worry about it.  Just remember one thing when purchasing any pro shop equipment: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!!
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Mike Austin

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 10:47:27 PM »
I have the Vacu Jig from Innovative, it has been excellent for me.  Just replaced the vacuum hose, BAM! right back up to 28lbs of pressure.

I am interested in the ovalmatic.  The one from Precision Bowling in New York is what I want, but it's $2600.  I saw that Ultimate Products has one in their catalog, but I lost my price sheet.

I wasn't putting down any jig, it's all a matter of what you get used to.  HAVE to HAVE a mill/drill, no matter what jig.  Couldn't do what Nick does, too many balls, drilling the oval is soooo much better.

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Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
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"So Many Balls, only ONE drill press!!"

Chuck Norris is the only person to ever count to infinity..........twice!

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DynoLess Daddy

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2006, 11:07:03 PM »
Between the AMF Vacu Jig and the Jayhawk Tri-Oval...I will stay with the tri oval.......definitely worth the bang in the buck! Used the AMf for many years but once we upgraded it was like night and day!
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JohnP

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2006, 09:19:00 AM »
And how about a little compassion for those of us that are still doing the best we can with an AMF sidewinder!!!  --  JohnP

Strapper_Squared

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2006, 10:53:22 AM »
I learned the ropes on a Gil-Mac... WOW.  +/- 1/16" was awesome (it was quite old and had a lot of play in it)..  The upgraded to something they found at a yard sale (I think anyway)... All of the writing/instructions/measurements on it are in Japanese characters... its quite the set up.  Basically a standard press with jig that looks like a ball spinner cup and a ring that slides overtop to clamp the ball in place.  Pitches are set by sliding the "table" that the cup sits on left/right and forward/backward.  It works alright, but we can't do any sort of milled ovals.  We generally will work out the sides of a thumb hole for a customer or keep a variety of pre-fit Vise oval thumb inserts in stock.  I think the only reason we got rid of the Gil-Mac was because the little round seating plate that raised up to secure the ball somehow wouldn't lock the ball in place any more.. so it became nearly impossible to drill with...

I'm sort of interested as well.. what are the differences between a standard drill press and a "milling" machine that allows you to drill ovals?

S^2
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Jeff Ussery

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2006, 05:22:04 PM »
Milling machines are much heavier duty and sturdier than drill presses, due to support column size and thickness.  They also have larger quills that allow the user to mill oval thumb holes in bowling balls with no taper.  Milling machines also allow the user to "drive" thumb slugs and inserts into the ball without removing the ball from the jig.  Milling machines will normally accomodate a keyless chuck, which is nice for speedy operation.

Furthermore, milling machines with multi-axis jigs allow the user to drill all 3 holes without unlocking the bowling ball.  This allows for the most precise alignment possible, and is the most accurate setup in repeating drilling specs time after time.

Milling machines are approximately 4 feet by 4 feet and weigh just over 1000 pounds.

Drill presses simply will not allow the user to drill an oval hole consistently through different densities and materials.  The quill and column are not large enough to withstand the vibration and movement created by the milling process.  When you are using a drill bit to shave a small amount of material out of a thumb slug that is already drilled, the point of the bit is not being supported by anything.  This means that you must have a large and sturdy machine to withstand the movement and drift created by this.  Drill presses do not allow for this.

Drill presses are much smaller units, and typically weigh around 300-400 pounds.

The machine that Strapper is talking about is most likely a "Hinetani" machine.  They are monstrous machines that are very hard to find at this point.  The drill bits are extremely expensive and rare.  Make sure not to lose them!

If anybody else has any questions about drill presses and milling machines, please feel free to e-mail me or call me.
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Next Level PS

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2006, 12:31:02 AM »
I have two mill/drills in the shop a jayhawk and a Ebonite power house pivoting "thingmajig" but the Ovalmatic 3 is still the bigdaddy of them all.
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YeahHossNV

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2006, 06:15:37 AM »
quote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330061170917&fromMakeTrack=true

Look it is a Gil-Mac for sale.


look at the "ball spinner/polisher" he is selling also. I would be scared that I would lose a finger or something in the process of using it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNA-Bowling-Ball-Polisher-Spinner-Pro-Shop_W0QQitemZ330061184416QQihZ014QQcategoryZ2905QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Edited on 12/11/2006 7:16 AM

JohnP

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2006, 10:41:07 AM »
That polisher wouldn't be bad if you only wanted to polish a limited area of the ball, such as after routing out a plug.  I'd hate to have to try to polish the entire ball surface with it.  --  JohnP

novawagonmaster

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2006, 07:15:16 PM »
quote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330061170917&fromMakeTrack=true

Look it is a Gil-Mac for sale.



I already know how to use this machine (local proprieter has been showing me the ropes). I know it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay, but is this guy in the ballpark? I want to drill my own balls at home for now. But as I gain experience, I may decide to open up shop.
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wasted talent

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2006, 11:37:50 PM »
I have/had three different presses in my shops. The first was a table top drill press. It did the job but was very limited. If you don't have a need to oval a ball on the press and don't mind doing all of the finish work by hand this it will work. I saved up enough money to by an Innovative Vacu Jig. I fell in love with this press. So easy to use. There isn't anything in the way. Super fast and accurate. The only thing that got me was that I needed to replace the rubber rings that help suck the ball down. My second shop I purchased the equipment from the previous owner. He has an Ebonite press with a 3-point jig. This press was sold by Ebonite but manufacturered by another company(I don't remember by who). The Mill is the same only the jig is different. The 3-point jig was nice but when you tightened it up it would move the ball slightly. Other than that this one is a solid press.

Now the press I wouldn't recommend to anyone:
The third shop I opened I wanted to buy the exact same press. So I called Ebonite and ordered the same one since it was cheaper than the Innovative (so I thought). Really didn't care for this press. First the 3-point jig, what a piece of crap. Instead of the third arm being a swivel type, it was a clamp with a rubber stopper. Complained about that and they sent me a replacement for the rubber stopper. I would still have to adjust the clamp for every ball due to the balls being different sizes. The lamp is a magnetic lamp that won't stay in place, it just flops all over the place. The bit holder and digital read-out holder had to be welded by an amateur. The slightest pressure on either of them and they snapped off. Then the kicker was that their price didn't include the bits. This might have been my fault or maybe Innovatives since their prices include the bits. After several complaints about this press I was later told that this was the first year that Ebonite was making their own presses. All in all I would recommend their new presses unless they have made some serious improvements. Especially for over $6000.

These are just my experiences. I could rant on more about the last press but I won't waste your time. But definitely go with a Milling Machine if you plan on doing any kind of volume.

One last thing, why don't the manufacturers of these fine and expensive machines include a maintenance guide.

Jeff, thanks for sending the info on how to maintain and lubricate my presses. It was very helpful and I'm sure saved me lots of money in the future.

Edited on 12/14/2006 0:40 AM

Edited on 12/14/2006 0:40 AM

cmoore3wins

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Re: Drill Press/Mill Machine?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2006, 10:58:21 AM »
Call John Jameson (800)226-5891 at Innovative or visit www.innovativebowling.com for the very best proshop equipment.
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