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Author Topic: HELP!!!  (Read 7016 times)

jjweb

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HELP!!!
« on: October 11, 2004, 05:12:17 PM »
I’m in desperate need of some help with my span and pitches. My current span is 4 13/16 (middle) 4 15/16 (ring) with 0 pitch in the fingers and 1/8 forward and 1/8 left in the thumb (45 degree oval). I just don’t feel comfortable and it’s killing my game. I also have some broken blood vessels under my middle finger nail, which doesn’t seem to help much either. I originally I had some reverse in the thumb, but I always felt like I was coming out too soon and would grab the ball during the downswing. So that’s why I decided I needed to add some forward in my thumb. I’ve done the coke bottle test on myself and my thumb points directly towards my index finger. I’m pulling shots, sending wide ones, washing out and started adding a little bit of muscle in my swing, which I never used to do. I keep getting lousy ball reactions and it’s getting very frustrating.

I know I need to change some stuff with my span and pitches; I just don’t know what.


Any help is greatly appreciated!
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!

 

jjweb

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2004, 06:46:05 PM »
Being the idiot I can be sometimes, I did forget to mention that I wear a Pro Release supporter. I know that would've been helpful info to share, lol.
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!

T-GOD

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2004, 07:09:33 PM »
jj, I would like to check your span, before making any suggestions. Place your thumb in your ball and lay your fingers over the holes of your ball. Don't stretch your hand/fingers over the holes, just lay them over the holes somewhat naturally, without stretching your fingers too much.

Now tell me where your creases land in relationship to the front edge of your finger holes and/or the front edge of the grips, if you're using finger grips.

I need to know if your crease is directly even with the front edge of the hole/grip or if the crease is in the middle/center of the hole/grip. Or, if your crease is halfway between the edge and center or is your crease halfway past the center of the hole and the back edge of the hole..?

I need to know this for both fingers. Where your crease lands in relationship to your finger holes. Then we can go from there. =:^D

jjweb

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2004, 07:24:34 PM »
T-GOD, I'm not sure I completely understand what you're asking. In the pic I do have my thumb in the ball and my fingers are naturally laying over the holes.
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!

jjweb

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2004, 08:44:14 PM »
Here's another pic, except, this time with my supporter on:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAwNDI2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!

jjweb

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2004, 09:09:19 PM »
Nah, I used a sharpie marker to mark the midline between my finger joints.
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!

LuckyLefty

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2004, 08:17:36 AM »
First of all the spans are taken with your hand stetched out comfortably.

A general rule from Bill Taylor is that if you ring finger is 5/16 shorter than your middle finger (measured to the final joing closest to fingertips) then your spans are equal.
If 1/4 inch shorter then the ring is 1/16 longer, 3/16 then ring span is 1/8 longer. and so on!

Why?  Because if you look at your hand you'll notice that your thumb is not naturally under your bridge it is to the side of the middle of fingers.
If you were a chicken your third finger would be in between your middle and ring finger!  Therefore the 5/16 adjustment compensates for the fact the ring is farther away from the thumb(to the side of thumb).

Go back stretch hand out.  Take pictures if you want.  Your end joint for modern relaxed fitting should be slightly past the center of the fingerholes.
For older style stretched fingertip your joint should just be to the middle of the fingerhole opening.  The way your middle finger looks now.  Look at picture.
However I don't believe your hand is stretched.

The impression I am getting is the following.  Middle finger is too short!
Ring is too long.

So do this.

1. Hold up palm of hand to camera(not back) and take picture.  Tell us difference in inches between middle and ring last joint length.  1/4", 5/16"? 3/16", 1/8"?
2. Stretch hand out a little and retake picture with your hand in ball prorelease on.
3. Do coke bottle test and and take picture.
4. Push bowling thumb back and show picture of how far back it bends.  Don't push too hard.  BEnd back towards elbow.

Your grip definitely looks hosed up!  ONe won't know till we see you stretched a little on ball.

REgards,

LUckylefty
Let's dehosify this situation!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

T-GOD

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2004, 12:04:59 PM »
jj, sorry I missed the pics. As King has stated, your spans are WAY TOO LONG..!! King is also correct that your middle finger is roughly 1/4" too long and your ring is close to 1/2" long.

I would shorten your middle by 1/4" and your ring by 7 1/16". This will leave you with a slightly dropped ring finger. This is how most of the pro's have their grip. Your actual span will be 4 9/16 for your middle finger and 4 1/2 for your ring.

Now as far as your thumb goes, you were dropping the ball because your span was too long, not because you had too much reverse pitch in your thumb. I would go with 1/16 left pitch in the thumb and 1/8 reverse.

Beveling the thumb is the most important factor in my book, not the pitches. The key is to get your thumb down in as deep as possible, while still being able to release the ball cleanly. You also want the hole tight. This can be done with tape once you've beveled the top of the hole correctly.

If you thumb joint is stiff, not like a hinge, then you'll probably need more reverse, especially if you want to put a high amount of revs on the ball.

Let's start from here and see how it goes. I'm sure it's going to feel MUCH better than what you have now. Good luck and report back. =:^D


jjweb

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2004, 01:59:34 PM »
Lucky, here are the different pics I took.

Pic of palm:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxMTk2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

Pic of thumb flex:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxMTk3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

Pic of coke bottle test, one with supporter and one without it:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxMTk4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxMTk5NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

And here is the one with my fingers stretched:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxMjAwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

If I do add reverse to the middle finger, will I lose some revs to the ball (what little of them I have)? Or will the new relaxed grip help increase it?

I can't thank any of you enough for all of the help. Thanks!
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!

jjweb

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2004, 02:33:32 PM »
Here is my middle finger flex:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxMjYyNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

And my ring finger:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxMjYzNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!

LuckyLefty

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2004, 03:36:31 PM »
Hey, where's the coke bottle.

When I grab a small bottle of hand lotion I test out at my index finger too!

BUT when I grab a Coke bottle (or in my case a diet coke bottle) I point at the space between my middle and ring!

Could you redo this test with a glass the size of a coke bottle or a COKE bottle.
Sprite bottle or Dr. Pepper will do.

Then we can get the real results.

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

solid9

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2004, 03:54:13 PM »


Lad: find a ball fitter who can fit your hand. not a ball driller. If you need help finding one, e-mail me or any of the people on this site who can find one for you.

Re-Evolution

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2004, 04:26:52 PM »
quote:
The impression I am getting is the following.  Middle finger is too short!
Ring is too long.



How can you say that it is obvious that his span is too long. He even has a blood blister under his finger nail on middle finger and that is a sign of a too long span if i ever saw one.
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STORMIN1


LuckyLefty

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2004, 05:58:20 PM »
I was not convinced he was stretching his hand at all until he showed stretched hand.  Then it was obvious that both fingers were too long however the middle finger is closer to being right than the ring which is just out there in crazy stretched land.

I had moved forward and agree that both fingers need to be shorter!

King of kings believes middle finger problem has a lot more to do with ring finger excessive span also!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

T-GOD

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2004, 06:03:40 PM »
jj, after looking at the pics of your hand, the span and pitches should be fine that I've suggested for your thumb.

You can stay with 0 forward or reverse in your fingers for now also, I would go with 1/2 left pitch in the middle finger and 3/8" right in your ring finger.

Now for the bevel of your thumb, you'll need a nice funnel like taper from the top to the middle of your hole. This will allow you to put your thumb in deep, allowing your palm to rest more on the ball. Key bevel pionts is at 1:30, 4:30 and 10:30. These areas of the thumb should have more bevel to fit your thumb as well as being able to release the ball cleanly. =:^D

jjweb

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Re: HELP!!!
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2004, 08:05:13 PM »
Here's the pic with a real coke bottle:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxNjg1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

(One coke was harmed in the taking of this picture)

And I also thought I should show off my thumb, just to give you an idea of it's condition:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjAxNjg2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

I do have a nice hard callous about a 1/2 an inch long on the inside of my thumb, starting from my thumb knuckle.
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The bowling gods said "let there be strikes" and then there was Dyno-Thane!