Author Topic: How close would drilling a pearl or polished solid with the ... (Read 7989 times)

charlest · « **on:** May 14, 2010, 02:15:00 PM »

pin on the PAP come to emulate the reaction of a urethane ball?

May I politely ask those with high ball speeds to not reply to this query. We know your ball speed reduces the backend of any ball. So you never worry about this subject.

Eeven my most even rolling resin have a lot of backend on/in my league, with 30 feet of guardian and short oil and incredible backend. My urethanes are good until the 3rd & 4th games when carrydown affects their carry.

So I'm wondering about this drilling. I have never used it. I have not yet (until now) believed I would need it.

Thoughts?
(Please leave all sarcasm at the front desk. Thank you. I will not react with kindness towards such comments. I am very frustrated at this point in time.)

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2010, 10:47:45 AM »

quote:
I actually had a Storm La Nina drilled similar to that! The pin was like 1-1/2" from my pap and I was able to play more of the outside drier boards and the ball would hook/set and actually played really good! Now I'm asking myself why I don't have a ball in my arsenal now to be able to play when the lanes breakdown! It does take the snap off the backend and it's more even rolling!

I have a Power Machine with this pin position with the MB in my track. This also allowed me to play further right during a Viper regional recently when the lanes were broken down with the same reaction that he mentioned.
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2010, 11:30:25 AM »

quote:
I actually had a Storm La Nina drilled similar to that! The pin was like 1-1/2" from my pap and I was able to play more of the outside drier boards and the ball would hook/set and actually played really good!

That would be my suggestion, too - maybe a bit stronger (say 2") if you do not have lots of hand, or if the ball has little differential. But a semi-axis to pin-axis setup like this is IMHO the ticket if over/under is your issue. It is a rolly setup, though, that needs from my experience some aggressiveness in teh release for good carry - nothing for true fluffers. But it works, arcs, and blends out any wet/dry, as far as I can tell from personal experience.

For a urethane-mock-up, take a weak reactive like a Power Groove or a Tropical Storm (even a used one is fine, just for trials!), keep the surface shiny (or just with a fine sanded surface - roll-out is an imminent issue!), and play up the boards close to the gutter. Hooks and plays way different from a normal setup with the pin beyond leverage point. But with some training I find it a very handy weapon for late games.
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charlest · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2010, 11:52:31 AM »

Dizzy and folks,

Thanks for all your replies so far.

I'm thinking because 1-10 boards are usually "sparkin'", that if I chose this type of drilling, I'd need not exactly pin on PAP, but probably more something like 1.5-2" pin to PAP. I've ordered an Avalanche Slide to try such a drilling out. Keep your fingers crossed.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2010, 11:54:10 AM »

Let us know how it rolls for ya.
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charlest · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2010, 01:35:51 PM »

quote:
Let us know how it rolls for ya.
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I should have it drilled in time for this fubar league on Friday. We'll see how I feel after using it.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Jesse James · « **Reply #21 on:** May 17, 2010, 03:34:26 PM »

Charlest,

Good luck with your drilling experiment, either way you go.

I have used the pin axis drilling before. It is extremely smooth, and rolly, just as others on here have already spoken of. The problem was carry, more than anything else. I had to be extremely accurate to say it was successful. For me, this drilling was condition specific.

I do have three balls drilled in the "barbell" layout Nicanor spoke of. They were much more useful,....and on a variety of conditions, with a fairly even reaction all the way down the lane.

Good luck with your selection.
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2010, 02:22:43 AM »

With an Avalanche and its low RG diff. core, I suppose that you can actually put the pin at 2" from PAP and still see only a very mild, continuous hook. But beware with its pretty low RG core - if the outside is truly dry, you might even need some force to get the ball with such a layout down the lane. Anyway, playing on a deeper straight line (with more/longer oil) should be no problem, though - please keep us up how it turns out!
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charlest · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2010, 09:42:17 AM »

Dizzy,

You're right about the AValanche but this is the Slide with a really long, mild coverstock. So I'm not worried about using it in light oil.Brunswick numbers make this barely, just barely stronger than the SlingShot and I know how that reacts.

Again, my main objective is to use a very mild resin and reduce the backend of the ball a lot, on very snappy, dry backends.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2010, 09:58:22 AM »

I did this with the Ebonite Black ice a few years ago and that ball will never leave my arsenal. I always had a hard time once the track dried out but the mids were still pretty wet, so I got a lot of over/under. Friend/pro shop owner suggested a weaker ball with a 2 inch pin to PAP, cg at/near center of grip and no weight hole. Pin was 3-4 inch pin since I have a 5 1/2 PAP. I have had the ball at 4000 abalon because the stock surface made me move deeper inside which then sacrificed carry. The ball is absolute money when the lanes are a little tighter in the middle and I can go out and play the track.
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2010, 10:08:41 AM »

Similar thing here with an old Power Groove Particle (Black Sparkle) - was curious about this kind of setup and got that ball with a high RG and differential for experiments. Light particle load could not be wrong, I thought, and the ball came already polished. Ball also had a 3-4" pin, and my ball driller put a kind of label drill on it (CG in palm, so no balance hole necessary), just with the pin close to the PAP.

I think I have a good combo with this setup and ball for me and my game - it is just a deadly rolling ball, and the cover has a LOT of traction, despite the polish.

Hopefully you have less length problems with the Slide - and I am curious how things turn out! It is, anyway, a recommendable layout if you want a special purpose ball, or an alternative for a totally different reaction on the lane.
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Juggernaut · « **Reply #26 on:** May 18, 2010, 09:06:24 PM »

Heres Dizzy's video of the power groove he spoke of: http://de.video.yahoo.com/watch/5346519/14091083
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #27 on:** May 19, 2010, 03:08:48 AM »

quote:
Heres Dizzy''s video of the power groove he spoke of: http://de.video.yahoo.com/watch/5346519/14091083
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Uh

- anyway, I hope you can see the reaction and how the core migrates continously towards the pin axis. And, esp. in the high angle shots, you can see how little "steam" the ball has in the back end. The Renegade, which I consider a good equivalent in overall strength, is much "snappier" and has a lot more back end to offer, on the same condition.
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Edited on 5/19/2010 3:33 AM

JessN16 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 19, 2010, 07:49:00 PM »

I've only used it once, so I can't say whether I should have liked it or not. Ball we used was a XXXtreme from Storm. Even at 600 grit, the ball would barely react downlane. It was very hook-set, and did so very early. I didn't like it much. Lots of corner pins.

I was afraid it might have been the ball itself, but I gave that ball away to another guy whose span was identical with mine. He rakes with it.

I'd like to try it on something different, perhaps a pearl at 1000 with a light buff, or a polished solid.

Jess

charlest · « **Reply #29 on:** May 19, 2010, 08:50:53 PM »

Jess,

That might not have been the best choice of balls. Remember all length, with such a drilling, now comes from the surface of the ball, your ball speed and rotation + tilt, and the lane oil. (Also a higher RG also would help somewhat.) Something mild and/or polished is your safest bet, UNLESS you want to play a reverse block by using ab early rolling, dull solid.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #30 on:** May 21, 2010, 01:15:46 AM »

quote:
Jess,

That might not have been the best choice of balls. Remember all length, with such a drilling, now comes from the surface of the ball, your ball speed and rotation + tilt, and the lane oil.

+1, from what I can tell. Even my rather weak Power Groove is VERY rolly, despite polish and its high RG. With a low RG/high end piece like a XXXtreme, I think that you just had "too much ball" as a basis - it might have been useful on a 50' wet/dry swamp, but I think the very poor back end and the corner pins due to low stored energy is just symptomatic. Using a weak piece is IMHO the way to go with a half axis of even pin axis setup - and adjusting the surface fro more traction if that should actually be needed!
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Author Topic: How close would drilling a pearl or polished solid with the ... (Read 7989 times)

charlest

How close would drilling a pearl or polished solid with the ...

Xcessive_Evil

Re: How close would drilling a pearl or polished solid with the ...

dizzyfugu

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charlest

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Xcessive_Evil

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charlest

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Jesse James

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dizzyfugu

Re: How close would drilling a pearl or polished solid with the ...

charlest

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TWOHAND834

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dizzyfugu

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Juggernaut

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dizzyfugu

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JessN16

Re: How close would drilling a pearl or polished solid with the ...

charlest

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dizzyfugu

Re: How close would drilling a pearl or polished solid with the ...