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Author Topic: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball  (Read 28916 times)

cav

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Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« on: October 03, 2014, 06:53:57 AM »
tell me

Cav
Teacher and Chess coach from Cleveland, Ohio..Go Tribe!

Global 900 Protocol, Storm mostly

 

Impending Doom

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2014, 02:42:30 PM »
Cav,

A little confused... Protocol is a 900 Global product, not Roto Grip. Could you double check the ball and company?

(I've always wanted a Protocol...)

Sorry I.D.,

You are correct.  BTW nice color on the protocol.....Tonight is league night.....Med-Heavy oil....will get more info then.

Cav

Protocol is sneaky strong. S70 is strong enough for most league shots, and that CFT core rolls like a champ. I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised, cav.

kidlost2000

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2014, 03:21:36 PM »
Kid,

Great.  I appreciate the answers.... They are similar to what I expected as to how to make these short pinners pin up balls.

And you found it more responsive due to the shorter Pin to Val distance than what you expected compared to its pin down twin of the same ball?

What ball was it out of curiosity?

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS I have seen the Plastic ball drilling before it might be in my bowling folder, I have not heard about Crux weighthole, however.
Is there a reason the Crux needs a different weighthole than others?  Is that the Crux of the matter?

I've not done many side by side if any recently that I remember of pin up versus pin down drilling on the same ball. I typically find pin up to be more aggressive later then pin down. Pin down usuallys is more controallable for me, especially with more aggressive bowling balls, or fresh backends. It depends on the ball, and the reaction I am looking for on a condition.

The Crux hole has nothing to do with the new ball. It is in reference to the location being centered on the bowlers grip, or slightly below grip center.

As far as pin up/pin down this has been my experience in terms of ball reaction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih45VXg8tP8

Crux hole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrReZOPYdt8
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

JohnP

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2014, 04:50:39 PM »
LL  --   The PBA plastic ball layout is in the wiki on bowlingchat.net, I've given you the link to the layouts index page because there are other layouts there you may enjoy looking at.  The plastic ball layout is under Specialty Layouts.  --  JohnP

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Proshop_Information#Layouts

kidlost2000

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2014, 05:28:11 PM »
Good link JP I forgot about that.

Funny story. I have always known the layout as the "Wiseman pattern" after PBA player Danny Wiseman from back in his days with Hammer and of course the guy working there by the name of Mo Pinel.

I got the chance to email Wiseman about it prior to the PBA plastic ball tourney years ago and he gave me some info on it that I couldn't quiet remember about the weight hole location ect. Many things aren't always new, just sometimes forgotten. I thought it was very cool.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2014, 09:10:05 PM »
Kid and JohnP,

Thanks for the great informative posts!

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

kidlost2000

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2014, 08:56:13 PM »
Curious where is the limit in everyone's opinion on what is too close a pin to cg to make it a dud???

Trying to find a ball to test and I have a Columbia Jazz that is listed 1-2" and shows 2" exact.

Does this work or is it too long to be a dud?

…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Impending Doom

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2014, 09:28:24 PM »
Pin in and 4+oz of top.

kidlost2000

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2014, 09:34:26 PM »
So is that a no?
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Impending Doom

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2014, 09:48:13 PM »
It's too long to be a dud.

kidlost2000

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2014, 10:39:42 PM »
Going to have to go up to 16lbs but have a Track Revmaster with a 0-1" pin and 3.5 top weight. Surely this 2002 ball with such a short pin must be a dud???

Should I expect it to be a spare ball as mention by others? Just throw it away maybe?

…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

tkkshop

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2014, 11:01:13 PM »
I believe that you are confusing "dud" with "weaker." A ball with a half inch pin compared to the same ball with a 4 inch pin will yield a different motion with the same layout. Don't believe me? Take any full cored ball with these pin specs, 5x5, which should not need a hole in either ball depending on your pap (I don't need a hole at 5x1^). The 1 inch pin ball will be longer and smoother and the 4 inch pin ball will Rev sooner and be more continous. I have tested this myself on the original Break about 5 years ago. I had to drill the fingers deeper, after the initial drill, to get the ball to sniff the breakpoint before 50 feet. The cg matters due to static weights, legal or not. You can go from 2 oz finger weight to 2 oz thumb weight with the same layout, based upon pin to cg distance. And yes, they each roll different.

kidlost2000

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2014, 11:22:25 PM »
Ball:  Protocol
Maker:  Global!
Weight:  15.2
Me: Stroker, 230 revs, 15-16 mph
Pin is .5 inches from the cg!
Drill:  Pin and cg is 1 inch right of ring finger!  No surface change, no weight hole.  Weird looking, my track area is over much of the balls graphic labeling surface!
Price: 159 retail.....me? 68$ off of face book
Ball driller One opinion: Will never hook.  Use it as a spare ball.
Ball driller Two opinion: Worse than bad, throw it away!
Ball driller 3 opinion:  Will work, ball driller has to have some knowledge.  Should work just as normal pin ball.
Manufacturer engineer: Ball will work.  Make sure you drill pin right of ring finger or roll over finger hole might be in your future.  Ball is fine.
My thoughts:  Will graphic surface letters affect ball roll?  Will ball roll out too soon?  Will ball skate like some suggest and not hook?

Experiment 1#

Lane: Normal med/high oil house shot after 2 leagues. Carry down and lighter oil is present.  Can see some oil on ball but not much.  3 games

Result:  Ball hooks more than my pin down hyroad.  Ball seems to be controllable and hits pins hard.  Carry down has little to no effect.  If I was right of target, ball came roaring back....nice mix of pins. No skating effect. Highlights: 11 strikes in a row (over 2 games) for a 190 avg bowler.  End up going about 25 pins over average per game.  3 splits (my error  :-\)

Thoughts: Somewhat surprising.  Ball reacted nicely and acted much like a strongly drilled high end ball.  SO far, great.



TKKshop     

Based off of what other drillers told this customer along with some other post on here I don't think I misunderstood anything in terms of apparent common thoughts of proshop "drillers" in reference to short pin balls.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

tkkshop

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2014, 11:05:17 AM »
I was referencing the people on this board as opposed to a couple of nameless shop drillers in a review. I believe the point is, a 1 inch pin ball will hook less than the same ball and layout using a 4 inch pin. This is my experience with such factors. Now I have never called any ball a "dud." As you have to match up the bowler, ball, and then layout to the conditions that they are requesting the second two parts to.

billdozer

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2014, 04:21:21 PM »
I'll still be punching my 3" pin outs, there is nothing you can do to change that! :)
In the bag [Infinite Physix, Volatility Torque, Night Road, Phaze III, Burner Solid, Hustle AU]
*Now Testing* IQ Ruby, Renevant, another IQ Tour solid
Coming soon...???

cav

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Re: Just wondering how a .5 inch to 1 inch pin affects the ball
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2015, 09:03:34 PM »
Hello all,

Have used the protocol with pin near CG for awhile.  Ball is great, I'm averaging about 10 pins over my normal with the protocol.  On my lanes (26ml) I throw it between 6-8 board, and it makes a nice curve toward the pocket.  For me, it works just as well as a normal ball.

Cav
Teacher and Chess coach from Cleveland, Ohio..Go Tribe!

Global 900 Protocol, Storm mostly