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Author Topic: MB placement question on a Roto Grip Epic Saga...UPDATE  (Read 5101 times)

JessN16

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MB placement question on a Roto Grip Epic Saga...UPDATE
« on: December 23, 2008, 03:29:02 PM »
For a bowler like myself (tweener, PAP 4 over 3/8 up), I have a question.

Roto Grip Epic Saga, static weights are typical. Ball is currently drilled pin-over-ring, which is about 4 inches away from the PAP, and there's a weight hole on the PAP (an experiment that seems to have helped).

The MB is track side of the thumb, about 6:30 or 7 o'clock.

Unless I sand the ball down to 1000 Abralon, it will not read the lane -- ANY lane. Conditions are almost irrelevant. And I didn't buy this ball to use at 1000 Abralon. At that level, it gives me a continuous arc shape, but is much too early to be usable.

Ball revs up very nicely. Carries well when I can get it in the pocket (which is about twice per game if I'm lucky). The rest of the time, it's over/under city. I've tried every surface prep from 1000 Abralon up, polished and not.

Initially, the ball did not appear to be flaring very much. I can't remember exactly why I drilled the weight hole dead on my PAP, but I did, and it increased flare and helped with control somewhat. But it only really advanced things from a 1 to a 2 on a scale of 1-10.

What would you suggest I try before giving up? I'm open to plugging the whole ball if necessary. What I was gunning for when I got this was a ball with a strong roll, controlled move to the pocket and enough energy stored for good carry. I didn't want the ball to go all stupid in the backend, and I don't need help hooking the ball. But right now, it's a liability.

The reason I phrased this as a MB question is that the only time I've gone track side with the MB is when I'm drilling a label drill on a ball made by Lane #1, and I've yet to have a problem with their stuff. This is the first strong assym and/or Storm/Roto ball I've drilled with a track-side MB.

Jess

Edited on 12/24/2008 0:30 AM

Edited on 12/30/2008 10:26 PM

 

JessN16

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Re: MB placement question on a Roto Grip Epic Saga...UPDATE
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2008, 09:26:12 PM »
Figured an update would be nice...

Plugged the whole thing and started over. This time, pin ended up over the middle, which is about 5 inches from my PAP, maybe 5.25. MB is almost exactly 3 inches away and in a strong position close to the thumb. No weight hole yet but I was thinking of drilling out the MB marker (separate thread on this is on this same board). There were so many things that needed to be plugged (thumb, three finger holes since I use a pinky hole, weight hole) that I did a resurface while I was at it and took it to 2000 plus Storm Reacta Shine.

Took it to league tonight just to test. Too much oil in the first couple of games and on top of that, the entire team we were bowling against with the exception of one guy used plastic all night, straight up the lane, and the fourth guy alternated. The right lane held together but the left lane was junk. Felt like a combination of bad carrydown and a sloppy blend line as you got closer to the gutter.

I went 177 (four splits) and 204 to start with a Lane #1 Tsunami H20. In the 10th frame of the second game, I could tell my breakpoint was moving too far up the lane at me, and since the inside of the lane was spotty, I decided to toss the Saga for game three.

First seven frames: 9/, X, X, X, X, X, X.

While this is going on, I'm in the middle of changing the way I drill my thumb hole. I've been drilling a 57/64 pilot and then ovaling the blue heck out of it. Jeff Carter used to do the same thing. But I noticed on his site that he has stopped that, and now just drills a round 63/64 hole.

I didn't go that far I just went to 15/16. I drilled two balls with this setup last week -- the Saga, and a Lane #1 XXXL Starburst, which is a polyester ball.

On the Starburst, there were no problems. Ball came off my hand fine. But on the Saga, the part just at the top of the hole -- i.e., that which is reactive resin -- started sticking.

Last three frames: split 7-0 (6-7-10, guttered on the second shot) split 7-2 (a light 2-7-8, got the 2-8 and wiggled the 7) and split 8-1 (high pocket 4-9, got the 4 and wiggled the 9). Final score: 207.

So now it's back to the shop to open the thumbhole a little more and maybe play with the bevel. I think I'll hold off on the weight hole for now.

This is the only 5-by drilling I have on any of my equipment with the pin in this position, and I think I'm going to like it. Characteristics tonight were that the ball loped through the chewed-up fronts, completely ignoring most of the trouble there, and then took off in the backends.

One of the best parts of this is that the former weight hole is now within an inch of my PAP. I use Dascar Inc.'s plugging material, which cures white, so I now have a built-in PAP tracker on the ball that I can watch as it goes down the lane. You can really see the transitions this way.

The other lessoned learned is that 15/16 isn't big enough on resin balls, apparently. I'll use a 61/64 pilot hole the next time and see what I get.

Thanks for the help folks -- it's looking good so far. This ball just went from being one of my most unpredictable balls to being one of my most predictable overnight.

Jess

Edited on 12/30/2008 10:29 PM

mrbowlingnut

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Re: MB placement question on a Roto Grip Epic Saga...UPDATE
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2008, 10:19:22 PM »
I would have been surprised if you did not like this ball, one of better balls Rotogrip ever made. Shot 248 the last time i took it with me, the pin under bridge ball is an excellent 2nd or 3 rd game ball.

I have to get the stronger pinned one reslugged and new spans, it handles more oil and is better for more overall patterns.

charlest

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Re: MB placement question on a Roto Grip Epic Saga...UPDATE
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2008, 03:55:48 AM »
Glad it seems to have worked out for you, Jess.

Just be careful how many different factors you're changing in one ball. They can interfere with one another and make it difficult to tell which one is making the difference.

Another guy just told me he drilled another strong mass bias ball like you did, with the MB on the track side of the thumb. He was shocked at how small the backend was on what should have been a large hooking ball, BUT he was very happy with how much control it gave him. He also did not realize what the MB placement means, how much effect it has on such a ball.
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skbowl800

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Re: MB placement question on a Roto Grip Epic Saga...UPDATE
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2009, 10:38:35 AM »
I recently purchased 2 Cell Pearls and drilled one pin under ring, mb stacked below and the other I drilled pin over ring mb track side of thumb, almost touching the thumb.  

 The two balls were very similar in reaction, much to my surprise, the pin over seemed to read the midlane better than the pin under.

 The pin over had a smoother reaction on the backend but covered just as many boards as the pin under.  

 The only real difference I noticed is that the pin under was more skid/snap and I tended to leave alot of 10 pins with it.

 So for me the pin over and mb on the track side of the thumb worked great and I will try it again on other balls.

 All this was done on wood lanes with guardian heads on 40ft of oil.  My stats are in my profile.
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Baliktad

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Re: MB placement question on a Roto Grip Epic Saga...UPDATE
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2009, 06:14:03 AM »
I had an X- Factor drilled real similar to your Epic and I had about the same reaction as you are getting. The ball went real straight and people could not believe it was an X- Factor till I showed them. Remember the X is a pearl reactive and if I am not mistaken the Epic is a solid? I would plug and redrill. 5 x 3 maybe. Will clear the front, but wont get stupid on the back. Used this layout at Fireside Lanes in Citrus Heights CA on a short heavy pattern and absolutely mashed the condition for the last 6 wks of league.

JessN16

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Re: MB placement question on a Roto Grip Epic Saga...UPDATE
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2009, 10:44:11 AM »
quote:
I had an X- Factor drilled real similar to your Epic and I had about the same reaction as you are getting. The ball went real straight and people could not believe it was an X- Factor till I showed them. Remember the X is a pearl reactive and if I am not mistaken the Epic is a solid? I would plug and redrill. 5 x 3 maybe. Will clear the front, but wont get stupid on the back. Used this layout at Fireside Lanes in Citrus Heights CA on a short heavy pattern and absolutely mashed the condition for the last 6 wks of league.


I have plugged and redrilled to a 5x3, and it did help. The Saga is a pearl-solid hybrid, incidentally.

Jess