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Author Topic: Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?  (Read 20290 times)

Neptune66

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Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?
« on: November 09, 2012, 10:01:07 AM »
I have long preferred very little bevel in my thumbhole, but I think I have the opposite problem now and may need a little more.

What are the main symptoms of not enough Bevel?

 

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 11:40:07 AM »

Assuming your span is correct (do have it checked along with pitches) you won't be able to "bury" the thumb all the way.  Many bowlers develop some extra "meat" at the base of their thumb that would prevent them from inserting it all the way without some bevel.

Neptune66

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Re: Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 01:08:25 PM »
That makes sense.

Reason I am asking is I've been having release problems.

So even though I refrained from beveling because I like a snug fit at the top of the hole, maybe I'm not inserting my thumb as far into the hole, thus causing the ball to slip as I'm preparing to deliver it? 

I've been having inordinate number of dropped balls, but when I put a piece of tape in, it feels too tight. 30 frames (or more) later I'm still fussing with it.

Could be problem with the pitch too (at least on two recently drilled balls), but have been having some trouble even with older equipment.

I've also gained about 10 pounds since last year, and remember reading somewhere (possibly even this forum, years ago) that gaining weight tends to decrease span and losing it, tends to increase?  If that's correct, then the span of the ball would feel wider, and this together with very minimal thumb bevel would cause me to have trouble coming out of the thumb.

When that happens, I subsequently have a tendency to try to loosen my grip on the ball ---to compensate---- and end up dropping* it.

(* I'm saying "dropping" but is not as if the ball totally falls from my hand. Just that as I am preparing to put some rotation on it, it's already starting to slide off my thumb.)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 03:56:14 PM by Neptune66 »

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2012, 09:31:40 PM »

Assuming your body mechanics are sound, I wouldn't be afraid to experiment a little with your thumb pitches. Take an older ball and start bringing the thumb pitch gradually forward (towards palm) and try it.  As you try more forward pitch you should gradually shorten the span length to help you get out more cleanly.

A few years ago my thumb pitch was 3/16 reverse and since then I've gradually moved it all the way to 1/8 forward with nothing but good results because I use less grip pressure.  Span length usually gives your driller a starting point regarding pitches, but we are all different so there are no cut and dried rules.

Losing the ball early off your hand can also be a symptom of a flaw in your timing or body mechanics, and possibly not be a "fit" issue at all.  It would be advisable to have a qualified coach make certain you are sound in that area before you spend money plugging thumb holes, etc.

Let me know if I can be of further help.  I have ideas, but without having your hand in front of me, or watching you roll the ball they are just some things that have worked over the years for others.  Good luck.


Neptune66

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Re: Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2012, 11:49:40 PM »
Actually...  my body mechanics are not that sound.  But it's so important to me that the balls feel right and this problem started when I decided to have two balls adjusted to match what I THOUGHT was a perfect fit.  Unfortunately, the last time I had used that "perfect" ball was over a year ago, and now it doesn't feel so perfect.  I think it's cause the wider span of the ring finger is making it more difficult for me to exit the thumbhole.  That causes me to remove tape and then I'm exiting too soon.  Then i put tape back in and....well you can see where this is going.  I think the ring finger is the one variant that is causing the thumb trouble.

All the balls (raised and not raised finger hole) are comfortable when picking up and holding them.  Just the delivery is an issue.  Could have nothing to do with the height and everything to do with pitch. Just that there is definitely a visual difference between them, which I didn't notice before today, so am going to go after that first.

And I know you are wise in telling me to wait and make the changes in small steps to a ball or balls that aren't that precious to me.  But I think my main error was in using a ball that had been modified from it's original drilling (by accident) instead of one that is in pretty much it's original state.

Maybe I'll ask the driller to compare my fit 3 ways. Versus the old ball with original drilling, the [formerly] "perfect" ball, and also ask him to measure my hand from scratch and see which fitting he thinks is better suited to me.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2012, 10:22:27 AM »
I have posted before some ideas Mo Pinel gave to me on thumb bevel.

Thanks Mo!

The main idea is that the same bowler can have different thumb pitches and spans and make custom bevel adjustments using the Mo Pinel bevel adjustment method and have a very good or almost butter like release.

Each different span or pitch combination calls for a different bevel amount for even the SAME bowler.

The method,

Put in only the middle finger, then move the thumb in and out feeling where the hang spot is. This will always be the hang spot on the side of the thumb.  Bevel around the top edge on the side then continue attempting to move the thumb in and out until it slides like butter!  Sometimes you will have to bevel slightly down into the cylinder of the hole slightly also.

SIGNS of not enough side bevel.  Tugging the shot inside always.  Continues until necessary side relief is applied to the hole.

Now move to the ring finger ONLY put that in it's hole and repeat the process.  Moving the thumb in and out while the ring finger stays in it's hole you will feel the pull under the flat of the thumb.  This is the front of the thumbhole and repeat the bevel process then test until the thumb moves in and out like butter.

Now apply a little blend to the transition area between the front and side bevel.

SIGNS of too little front bevel
Hanging(beeeee careful always before one has done the ring finger test).  Worse long term is black lines on the thumb under the flat of the thumb!  Danger, this will lead to an electrical feeling or shock under the thumb.  This is the beginning of nerve damage under the thumb which can be long lasting or permanent!

DANGER Add front bevel and perform the ring finger test at the first sign hanging,  of black lines, or the electric shock feel!  All dangerous! 

NOTE  ending up with different amounts of side and front bevel is perfectly acceptable  (why I very seldom just apply the standard bevel sander which often very quickly applies the same bevel to both front and side surfaces).

Another idea.  The same bowler can drill different pitches in a thumbhole(to create a different roll(say less reverse and less lateral under palm pitch for a straighter roll on a sport condition).  This will often result in needing more front bevel and more side bevel than your usual league bowling set of thumb pitches!

Good lucky!

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS all items should be field tested with the ball traveling tight to the ankle during delivery.  Often a bowler can not have enough bevel in the side of the ball but get out of the ball if they get the ball out away from the ankle and overturn the hand. 
PPS Notclay, I would love to see a separate post on your thoughts on thumbs, always trying to learn more!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 10:23:58 AM by LuckyLefty »
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Neptune66

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Re: Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2012, 08:10:54 AM »
Just wanted to mention that it was not the fit of the ball, and was in fact my timing.

Went to the lanes with a ball that I had never had trouble with, and had none this time either. So, of course, decided to have the "dropping" ball adjusted to it.  Except the driller said there was no difference between the balls.  They did, in fact, FEEL the same. So why was I dropping one?

He didn't know.  He kiddingly told me he could make changes if I insisted, but he was just joking.  And then I mentioned that the "good" ball was 16 lbs vs 15 for the "dropper", and asked if that could have any bearing.  I didn't think so.

But it does. He said that the heavier bal was slowing my armswing a bit, and that can make a difference in the ball's release.  And sure enough...  I went back to the lanes with the lighter ball (the problem child) and while the scores were nothing remarkable, the fit was just fine.  I just have to slow down my feet or delay my armswing or both.

I told the driller how grateful I was to him....not just for saving me money, but for saving me the hassle it would have been to try to fix that ball (especially with there being nothing wrong with it in the first place!

Most of all...  I have been in a terrible slump where even when i had a decent game going, I would always choke.  Cause I didn't have confidence in my delivery (cause I expected a potential drop). Yesterday I got my confidence back too.

And thank you both (notclay and LuckyLefty) for your mentioning of the timing.  Although I didn't listen at first, it was rattling around in the back of my brain since reading here, and finally ....the light bulb went on yesterday while talking with my driller.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 08:14:10 AM by Neptune66 »

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2012, 11:47:16 AM »

You are welcome. Now go throw strikes...

Neptune66

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Re: Not enough Bevel in thumbhole?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2012, 12:15:55 PM »
Have to wait till Wednesday league, but I am ready.

Thanks  :)