Author Topic: smoothest layout? (Read 23655 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** January 13, 2015, 01:43:34 AM »

I have used a pin at center grip to create a smooth layout with some success. This puts the pin 5 inches from my PAP. This works best with short pins to where a weight hole isn't needed as a weight hole usually increases the flare and asymmetry and causes more movement.

Does anyone have any feedback on how a 1 3/4 pin to pap would differ in reaction? I know it would put the core in a low rg orientation. It should also have similar flare to the 5" pin to pap. Is there an issue with the pin possibly locking onto the PAP?

What layout do you use when you want to smooth out the reaction and take as much flip out of the ball as possible?

itsallaboutme · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2015, 06:08:36 AM »

In theory short pins to PAP work, but in real world application most people don't know when or how to use them.

northface28 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2015, 09:45:04 AM »

Will people ever alter their releases instead of looking for magic layouts or balls?

Impending Doom · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2015, 10:12:30 AM »

Short pins to pap are usually condition specific. I drilled up a Grip It trying to smooth out the left to right, and going up the lane the ball checked up too soon, and if I tried to go left to right, it didn't have enough to get around the corner. If you're looking to manage flare, you can either go with a lower diff core and still drill it strong, IE a Scream, Tropical Breeze, Strike King, and adjust the cover (sanding with the initial track) to get it thru the fronts cleaner, and be smoother on the back.

But I also agree with northface. A simple hand position change could allow you to stay with the ball drilled rico and get a totally different reaction.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:19:15 AM »

Quote from: Impending Doom on January 13, 2015, 10:12:30 AM

Short pins to pap are usually condition specific. I drilled up a Grip It trying to smooth out the left to right, and going up the lane the ball checked up too soon, and if I tried to go left to right, it didn't have enough to get around the corner. If you're looking to manage flare, you can either go with a lower diff core and still drill it strong, IE a Scream, Tropical Breeze, Strike King, and adjust the cover (sanding with the initial track) to get it thru the fronts cleaner, and be smoother on the back.

But I also agree with northface. A simple hand position change could allow you to stay with the ball drilled rico and get a totally different reaction.

This is exactly why when I have drilled a couple balls with the pin at 2 inches from PAP; I have done it with weaker balls. I have never drilled anything higher end with a 2 inch layout. I had an Ebonite Black Ice drilled that way and it was far and away the best ball I had for both house and tournament conditions when I wanted to square up. Cover was weak enough to still push through the fronts but the backend reaction was super smooth yet just enough angle to kick the 10s.

The key now to get smooth rolling balls; is balls with very low diffs and/or balls drilled with the pin below the fingers in order to lower the overall diff (take a ball with a diff of .040 or lower and drop the diff almost in half by putting the pin between the fingers and center of grip). My two smoothest rolling balls right now are a Deep Freeze (.029 diff OOB) and a Take Down which is box finish but pin below the bridge to cut the diff down. Another thing to add is take the shine off a ball if it comes out of the box shiny to also smoothen out the backend.

northface28 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:43:05 AM »

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on January 13, 2015, 11:19:15 AM

Quote from: Impending Doom on January 13, 2015, 10:12:30 AM
Short pins to pap are usually condition specific. I drilled up a Grip It trying to smooth out the left to right, and going up the lane the ball checked up too soon, and if I tried to go left to right, it didn't have enough to get around the corner. If you're looking to manage flare, you can either go with a lower diff core and still drill it strong, IE a Scream, Tropical Breeze, Strike King, and adjust the cover (sanding with the initial track) to get it thru the fronts cleaner, and be smoother on the back.

But I also agree with northface. A simple hand position change could allow you to stay with the ball drilled rico and get a totally different reaction.

This is exactly why when I have drilled a couple balls with the pin at 2 inches from PAP; I have done it with weaker balls. I have never drilled anything higher end with a 2 inch layout. I had an Ebonite Black Ice drilled that way and it was far and away the best ball I had for both house and tournament conditions when I wanted to square up. Cover was weak enough to still push through the fronts but the backend reaction was super smooth yet just enough angle to kick the 10s.

The key now to get smooth rolling balls; is balls with very low diffs and/or balls drilled with the pin below the fingers in order to lower the overall diff (take a ball with a diff of .040 or lower and drop the diff almost in half by putting the pin between the fingers and center of grip). My two smoothest rolling balls right now are a Deep Freeze (.029 diff OOB) and a Take Down which is box finish but pin below the bridge to cut the diff down. Another thing to add is take the shine off a ball if it comes out of the box shiny to also smoothen out the backend.

I dont understand this, pins below the fingers flare significantly more than balls with pins above the fingers for me, i.e below the bridge vs over bridge. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Using your theory.

JustRico · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2015, 11:59:50 AM »

This is the problem with the Internet...anyone can be considered knowledgeable without have true data to back up what they post...

txbowler · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2015, 12:07:43 PM »

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 09:45:04 AM

Will people ever alter their releases instead of looking for magic layouts or balls?

Because bowlers want to use the most consistent A game. Plain and simple.

billdozer · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2015, 12:49:54 PM »

No offense to the scientists here. IMO its trial and error, what works for one, doesnt work for others!

JustRico · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2015, 12:53:27 PM »

^^^ding ding ding winner^^^

No one does legitimate analysis just assumption

JustRico · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2015, 12:54:45 PM »

As well as completely understand reaction and what effect the condition creates...

Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2015, 01:53:15 PM »

Urethane? I hear that's pretty smooth reacting.

J_w73 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2015, 02:00:28 PM »

Quote from: northface28 on January 13, 2015, 09:45:04 AM

Will people ever alter their releases instead of looking for magic layouts or balls?

I'm sure you only have and use one ball then? Am I correct?

J_w73 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2015, 02:03:18 PM »

Quote from: Impending Doom on January 13, 2015, 10:12:30 AM

Short pins to pap are usually condition specific. I drilled up a Grip It trying to smooth out the left to right, and going up the lane the ball checked up too soon, and if I tried to go left to right, it didn't have enough to get around the corner. If you're looking to manage flare, you can either go with a lower diff core and still drill it strong, IE a Scream, Tropical Breeze, Strike King, and adjust the cover (sanding with the initial track) to get it thru the fronts cleaner, and be smoother on the back.

But I also agree with northface. A simple hand position change could allow you to stay with the ball drilled rico and get a totally different reaction.

I have found the similar reaction when I tried short pin to pap balls in the past. That was back when like 10 years ago or more when I didn't know my PAP so that could have been the issue. I agree. A hand change works, but it is nice to have a ball that plays along with the desired reaction.

J_w73 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2015, 02:06:54 PM »

Quote from: JustRico on January 13, 2015, 11:59:50 AM

This is the problem with the Internet...anyone can be considered knowledgeable without have true data to back up what they post...

Not sure what post you are referring to.

Author Topic: smoothest layout? (Read 23655 times)

J_w73

smoothest layout?

itsallaboutme

Re: smoothest layout?

northface28

Re: smoothest layout?

Impending Doom

Re: smoothest layout?

TWOHAND834

Re: smoothest layout?

northface28

Re: smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?

txbowler

Re: smoothest layout?

billdozer

Re: smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?

JustRico

Re: smoothest layout?

Strapper_Squared

Re: smoothest layout?

J_w73

Re: smoothest layout?

J_w73

Re: smoothest layout?

J_w73

Re: smoothest layout?