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Author Topic: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.  (Read 7168 times)

chitown

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the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« on: November 21, 2005, 09:16:48 AM »
I have tried this season to do well with my forward thumb pitch (1/8 forward).  I have done absolutely crappy.  I hang in the ball half the time when I miss on my release.  It has caused me to be real inconsistent in my release.  I drilled an old ball with the same pitch's and span except for my thumb pitch.  I changed the thumb pitch to 1/4 reverse and 3/16 lateral toward the palm.  The lateral pitch was the same as before.  I had much better success.  Even when I missed on my release I was still able to have a good ball roll because I didn't hang.  Well i'm going into  the pro shop tonight to drop all of my balls in my arsenal off to change back to 1/4 reverse.

The moral of this story is that sometimes it's best to just leave things alone instead of always searching for something better.
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Steven

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2005, 05:30:32 PM »
Chi -- At least you gave it a try. I went through the same circle of misery you just described, and like you, went back to my previous reverse pitch.

We're not all anatomically constructed for forward pitch. However, experimenting is something everyone should try to find out what's really optimal.

Just a thought: There is a big gap between 1/4 reverse and 1/8 forward. Have you considered trying 1/8 reverse just to get a hair more hang than you had previously?
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Sawuser

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2005, 05:40:49 PM »
I agree, if you can't use it, you can't use it. If your span is not adjusted perfectly or if your thumb is not flexible, or a number of other things wrong, it won't work. I went to 1/4 forward & for my span it was too much & I had the same problem. I now have 1/8 forward with the correct span & will never go back to using reverse. Just always remember if you want to try something different, don't be afraid, because nothing ventured nothing gained. Just don't change everything until you're sure it's going to work for you.
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Wayne
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a_ak57

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2005, 05:48:43 PM »
"Forward pitch" is all a relative concept anyways.  Relative, in terms of span.  A measured 1/2" of reverse on a 6" span will feel like it has more forward than 1/4" foward in 4" span ball.
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Doug Sterner

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2005, 06:02:25 PM »
aak57 is exactly right....ANYONE can use forward or reverse pitch but the span needs to be right.

I had a girl who came to me and wanted a new ball. I hooked her up with a new ball but told her I did not like her old span and pitches. She and her dad agreed to let me refit her since she regularly needed skinpatch and such to repair her hand due to rubbing etc. Her old span was 4-1/2 cut to cut with 5/8 reverse and 1/8 left lateral.

I changed her span to a more comfortable 4-1/8 with 1/8 forward and 1/8 right. She now has no rubbing and is throwing the best ball of her life.

What she had was "OK" but what I gave her was better.
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Doug Sterner
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LuckyLefty

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2005, 06:05:29 PM »
Hmmmm...Idon't know if I've ever agreed with AK_57 before..

Let me pause and enjoy the moment.

On the side of the forward crew.  A move to dramatic forward often causes the need for an increase in frong bevel.  If anyone ever goes to way froward from where they are and gets pain and black marks under the front of thumb....stop...don't bowl anymore you are causing nerve damage which can be permanent.

Now add front bevel to front of thumb hole(under flat part of thumb) (no need to increase side bevel probably).  For AMOUNT of forward bevel do ring finger test.

I have had guys bound and determined to have move front bevel and by increasing this front bevel we ended pain and they were able to do experiment safely.

I don't like it for everyone but this at least can give the test a fair try!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I can see when someone if the timing is what I want to see in the interaction between thumb release and finger but over the web....hard.
REcently we added reverse to a guy and stretched span 1/8....new bowler!  He can't believe it!
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Sawuser

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2005, 06:25:41 PM »
LL, Ithink this is one of the very few times I have disagreed with you. Since going 1/8 forward on my thumb & adjusted my span accordingly, for the first time in my life, I can bowl with absolutely NO bevel on the thumb. As I stated earlier & repeated by AK & Doug, THE SPAN MUST BE CORRECT!!

Quote:
On the side of the forward crew. A move to dramatic forward often causes the need for an increase in frong bevel. If anyone ever goes to way froward from where they are and gets pain and black marks under the front of thumb....stop...don't bowl anymore you are causing nerve damage which can be permanent.


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Oh, yes, I also have the CLT with 5/8 reverse in both fingers.

Oh, yes, I've been bowling for 45 years, have 4 700's in the last 3 weeks & averaging 220 in two leagues. Not bragging, just HAPPY with my new drillings!

Wayne
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And as it is appointed unto men once to die,
but after this the judgement

Edited on 11/21/2005 7:17 PM

Edited on 11/21/2005 7:21 PM
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Sawuser

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2005, 06:41:40 PM »
STR, exactly what you say,RESULTS! What works for me, may not work at all for you & visa versa! You gotta do what works for you, & if you do try something new, just do one ball & try it for a while to be sure. Don't change your whole arsenal & then get upset when you find out it's not working!
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Wayne
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And as it is appointed unto men once to die,
but after this the judgement
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Strider

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2005, 09:27:48 PM »
quote:
I tried that forward pitch and short span junk after about 10 years of no problems what so every with my hand and thumb.  It might be ok for the bowler who hasn't been around for a long time...but for established players who are used to a span and a pitch over the years, it doesn't useally work.


I agree with your results, but not your reasoning.  As you said, you keep what works for you.  Kudos for experimenting.  Obviously your old span and pitches were best for you.  But I am an established player (been bowling for 30 years, more than 10 competitively) who used the same span and pitches for years.  After a little coaching, I went from 5/16 reverse to 3/8 forward (all at once) to 9/16 forward (a few weeks later).  My span is almost 1/2" shorter than before.

Neither reverse or forward is the magic cure for anything.  You just have to keep trying things until you find out what works.  If I didn't already drill a bunch of stuff with 9/16, I'd probably try further.  I can still feel myself squeezing the ball sometimes.  Once I had the first drilled 9/16, I kept dropping the ball with "only" 3/8.  I'm certainly no guru, and not an advocate for moving everyone forward, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of bowlers are squeezing the ball more than they think because of their thumb pitch.
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chitown

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2005, 09:38:48 PM »
quote:
How about 1/2 reverse + 1/2" palm(or right lateral) for a RH plus a CLT pitch on the fingers.    Don't knock it til you try it.


I also use a CLT pitch.  It makes the thumb look off set.  It feels great BUT FEELS BETTER WITH 1/4 REVERSE AND 3/16 LATERAL TO THE PALM FOR THE THUMB. LOL
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chitown

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2005, 09:41:42 PM »
quote:
I tried that forward pitch and short span junk after about 10 years of no problems what so every with my hand and thumb.  It might be ok for the bowler who hasn't been around for a long time...but for established players who are used to a span and a pitch over the years, it doesn't useally work.

what would be my normal fingertip span is 4 9/16th x 4 8/16th with 1/8 reverse thumb

The short what was measured at around by two drillers one being Mo at 4 x 3 15/16 and another guy around 4 1/4 with 1/8 Forward

What I've used for the last 10 years and went back two last week...

4 3/4 x 4 5/8 with 1/4 to 3/8 reverse and 1/4 right side....

I went back to what I used as a kid, and I've had 3 700s in 2 weeks....after not having anything at all for the first 13 weeks this year useing these NEW and IMPROVED drilling ideas.

Sometimes it's better to keep the dog useing his old tricks..instead of the new ones..



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Edited on 11/21/2005 7:11 PM


I totally agree.  I'm not saying I won't try new things but I will not change my span and pitches anytime soon.  After my balls get fixed it will be back to making money.
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Brickguy221

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2005, 09:48:18 PM »
quote:
Chi -- At least you gave it a try. I went through the same circle of misery you just described, and like you, went back to my previous reverse pitch.  


I agree with Steven here. I too also went thru the circle of misery and went back to my previous reverse.

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chitown

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2005, 10:39:54 PM »
Hey we tried to find that perfect fit when all along we laready had it.  I don't know why I changed to begin with because I wasn't having any problems with my old span and pitches.  

I'm finding out that the more I read the posts on this site that it kind of gets me thinking too much about my game.  I need to learn that what I have is fine and just go with it.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2005, 11:25:30 PM »
Saw...

IN reading my post you must realize many of the guys I observed getting black marks and coming to me. (I am not a professional driller).  Were guys who left the spans the same and went and made dramatic moves forward.

These black marks and jolting electric shocks were serious issues.

Fixed in a few swipes of the bevel knife.

The other situation(yours I think) is that one decides on a certain forward pitch and shortens the span to accomodate it.
Forward pitch added for it's own sake does have the tendancy to cut down how far the hand can stretch out over finger holes.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS any more....I just like to watch and see a couple of things.  Relationship between thumb and finger timing.  Thumb out early enough...ball staying on fingers long enough
PPS second item...where is arm path in relation to initial ball path.  Not enough palm under lateral...arm frequently inside initial ball path.  Too much under palm lateral....arm swing dramatically to the gutter side of the initial ball path....usually!
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year!  Don't bowl me the second two games though!  (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
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chitown

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Re: the hell with my forward thumb pitch.
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2005, 10:02:36 AM »
From my understanding was that the whole idea of forward thumb pitch was so a bowler didn't have to squeeze his thumb.  Well I feel that if you use reverse in the thumb and have a tight hole that you could acheive the same thing.

When I bowled on Sunday half way thru league I pulled out my new redrilled ball with the reverse and bingo; back to normal.  I'm surprised I waited this long to change back to normalcy.
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