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Author Topic: thumb pitch and layout suggestions  (Read 12940 times)

skidhookgutter

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thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« on: April 13, 2010, 04:02:14 PM »
I read not to long ago on this board of a drilling of the thumb but turning the ball in the jig before drilling the hole. I cant seem to find the posts. My fingers and wrists are not very limber and Im really wondering what I can do to feel more comfortable cocking my wrist.  The league I joined for fun, everyone bowls with the same brand and model ball. I'm classic stroker but working hard to re-program my hand/wrist to gain some revs. I have a pap of 5 over and up 1/2. The last two balls I had were drilled 3 3/8 x 3 3/8. Obviously inside and swing is not my A game! At the same time Ive had skid flip and that seems to be pretty speed and condition specific. I would like to have the ball store some energy but have a strong continuous arc to the pocket. Looking for drilling suggestions. THS, stroker with about 16mph, They tell me they chose the Brunswick copperhead. Thanks in advance and sorry for L O N G  post.
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Brickguy221

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2010, 12:53:54 AM »
I don't recall seeing it on this site, but I could ahve missed it because I don't always read teh drilling forum here. However here is a link with a brief demonstration of what I think you may be talking about but not sure.

http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/showthread.php?t=33532

I was the first one on the BBE site to switch to this 45* degree style drilling and love it and have never considered to going back to the T-Grip style drilling. A huge number of others followed after they saw my success and agreed that it was comfortable, easier release, more revs, and etc.

In brief, the driller simply sets the pitches on the drill like he was going to drill a T-Grip style thumb hole....He then puts the ball in the jig like he normally does and then turns the fingers 45* to the left for right handers and drills the thumb hole. (turns fingers 45* to the right for left handers)

Not sure if this is what you are looking for or not. If you have any questions about it, let me know.
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dballz

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2010, 09:09:54 AM »
Brickguy, i have never heard of that technique before. do you put the same pitches as you normally would and then turn the ball and drill it? would you put in an oval thumb insert the same way you drilled the hole, or place it like you normally would? thanks!
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JohnP

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2010, 11:09:05 AM »
I read the thread and watched the video.  I can't do ovals on my machine so I won't talk about them, but I will give my thoughts on the 45* system for round holes.  If a driller can "read" the customer's thumb hinge and relate that to pitches on the standard T grip, he'll get a good fit.  If he can't or has a problem with a specific customer I can see how this system might help.  I would think (note:  haven't tried it yet, may or may not) that rotating the ball in the jig by the oval angle would require that the lateral pitch used when drilling the hole be 0, allowing the rotation to set the lateral.  Then use the forward/reverse pitch you would normally use.  If I try it I'll let you know how it worked out.  Whether it works or not, after you do a few balls this way, by measuring the new pitches on the standard T grip alignment it could be duplicated without rotating the ball.  --  JohnP
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Brickguy221

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2010, 12:44:28 PM »
quote:
Brickguy, i have never heard of that technique before. do you put the same pitches as you normally would and then turn the ball and drill it? would you put in an oval thumb insert the same way you drilled the hole, or place it like you normally would? thanks!  


Yes....You set the drill press for your normal pitches, put ball in jig, then turn 45* and drill thumb. When you check thumb pitches after drilling, you check the pitches on the same 45* angle you drilled it. For example, my thumb pitch is 3/16 reverse and 0 lateral. After drilling it, if I check the pitch on the same 45* angle it was drilled, it will be 3/16 reverse. If I check it on the grip line, it won''t be 3/16 reverse and isn''t supposed to be 3/16 reverse on the grip line like it is on a T-Grip drilled thumb hole.

If you hold your hand out with the palm up and thumb up, and keep your thumb up and move your thumb to the left like it would be in the thumb hole of a ball, you will note the back of thumb points 45* to the right, thus the direction of your thumb reverse or forward pitch.

Here is the first original link on BBE on this drilling and how it came about. Because it is so long, I didn''t post it in my first post but am posting it now. If you or anyone else interested in this thumb drilling want to take the time to read the entire article, I think all questions will be answered.

http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/showthread.php?t=32344
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

Edited on 4/14/2010 12:45 PM
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Stan

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2010, 02:17:32 PM »
How much different is the 45 degree thumb to a CLT Drilling ?
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bowler001

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2010, 04:09:36 PM »
quote:
Whether it works or not, after you do a few balls this way, by measuring the new pitches on the standard T grip alignment it could be duplicated without rotating the ball.  --  JohnP


Exactly my thinking.
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The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
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Brickguy221

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2010, 04:32:46 PM »
quote:
quote:
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Whether it works or not, after you do a few balls this way, by measuring the new pitches on the standard T grip alignment it could be duplicated without rotating the ball. -- JohnP
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Exactly my thinking.
--------------------

Doug Morton
Xclusive Pro Shop - Anchorage, Alaska

Brunswick Pro Shop Staff

 


Not sure that will work.....This move is a 45* move. How are you going to drill a 45* move to the grip line without moving the ball when your jig is limited to a 90* move to the grip line? I'm not a driller but am really familiar with this drilling, thus the reason for my question here.

What is so difficult to simply marking the 45* line and drilling the thumb off that line? With this 45* drilling drilled as it is supposed to be drilled, you drill the thumb first and then measure from the thumb and then mark and drill the fingers off the original grip line and not the 45* line. Some offset the thumb 3/16" to the left (RH bowler...opposite for LH bowler) of the original grip line. I tried the 3/16" offset and didn't like it. Some like it and some don't. You really need to read all of the posts in the second link about this drilling and you should thourghly understand it if you know anything at all about drilling balls.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick
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JohnP

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2010, 04:42:04 PM »
quote:
Not sure that will work.....This move is a 45* move. How are you going to drill a 45* move to the grip line without moving the ball when your jig is limited to a 90* move to the grip line? I'm not a driller but am really familiar with this drilling, thus the reason for my question here.  
 

Remember, I'm talking about round holes only not ovals.  It's a round hole and you haven't changed the spans, so the only thing that has changed is the pitches.  You can measure the pitches for the rotated hole on the center line for the standard T grip and simply use those pitches when drilling the hole.  It will come out the same as rotating the ball.  --  JohnP
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Brickguy221

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2010, 05:09:27 PM »
quote:
It''s a round hole and you haven''t changed the spans, so the only thing that has changed is the pitches.


John, you haven''t changed the pitches, but you have changed the direction of the pitches.

From what I have read and heard, especially from the 2 people (John from Innovative Products and Pinchezer from the Netherlands) that came up with drilling the thumb at 45*, you can get a bit in the area adjusting your jig, but not the same 45* or feel that is obtained from moving the ball to drill thumb. To me, it seems that it would be simpler to move the ball than messing with the jig trying to duplicate the actual 45*.

May I ask what is so difficult about setting the pitches for a T-Grip drilling and moving the ball to 45* in the jig and drilling the thumb hole? My driller whom has over 20 years of experience does it all of the time when drilling my balls and it is no more time consuming than drilling the old T-Grip way.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick




Edited on 4/14/2010 5:14 PM
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stormed1

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2010, 05:34:55 PM »
I have used this method off and on for  years. It is based of your thumbs natural pivot line. It Will alter ypur pitches in relation to the standard T-grip line depending on the pitches used
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bowler001

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2010, 05:52:34 PM »
Whatever way you measure the pitches, as long as you use the same technique on the next ball, it will match. So by measuring a 45* thumb's pitches after the fact(whatever they may be), obviously the t grip pitches will be diffent. Now use those t grip pitches to drill the ball the standard t grip way and you arrive at the same results. If my front to back and side to side pitches match from one ball to the next, obviosuly, if I measure pitches at a 45* angle, they will match also.

And using Jayhawk's(PAI's) digital pitch gauge, I believe it will accurately measure pitches on oval holes.

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Brickguy221

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 12:03:18 AM »
quote:
So by measuring a 45* thumb's pitches after the fact(whatever they may be), obviously the t grip pitches will be diffent. Now use those t grip pitches to drill the ball the standard t grip way and you arrive at the same results. If my front to back and side to side pitches match from one ball to the next, obviosuly, if I measure pitches at a 45* angle, they will match also.  


Good luck with that, but it isn't going to come out the EXACT SAME as a 45* drilled thumb hole as it is supposed to be drilled.

There is a fool proof and simple method to drill this 45* thumb, but some of you seem to want to try to do it a different way for reasons unknown to me. I have been involved in drilling 45* thumbs directly and indirectly since October of last year with others besides myself, so I have said all I am going to say about this drilling. I was only trying to help/advise those really interested in it.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick
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67tbird

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2010, 01:20:18 AM »
thanks Brickguy
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JohnP

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Re: thumb pitch and layout suggestions
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2010, 10:53:42 AM »
quote:
John, you haven''t changed the pitches, but you have changed the direction of the pitches.


The combination of lateral and forward/reverse pitches define the angle the hole is drilled at.  I never said it was difficult to shift the ball 45* to drill the hole, only that it can be duplicated without the shift when you know the new pitch combination based on the standard T grip.  And bowler001 has already adequately addressed that.  On a standard upright press the 45* shift is quite easy.  I drill on an AMF 3600 horizontal press (sidewinder), and the 45* shift is not as easy, but can still be done.  I would be interested to know the new pitches based on the T grip for your thumb hole that was drilled with the 45* shift, and what the pitch settings for the 45* shift were.  --  JohnP
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