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Author Topic: Understanding Layouts 101  (Read 7876 times)

witesoxwoz22

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Understanding Layouts 101
« on: May 04, 2010, 01:16:26 PM »
Could someone explain what this means exactly.  I assume the 1st number is the Pin to PAP for both.  

example:

5"45X42

example:
5X3X3

Thanks
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kingpin268

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2010, 09:22:17 PM »
First number is the (drill?) angle. Basically the angle between the MB-pin and pin-axis. Larger angles put the MB closer to your thumb. Smaller angles closer to the VAL.

Middle number is the pin-to-pap distance. 3 3/8 is largest flare for most balls. Shorter gives you a smoother, lower flaring movement. Later will give you a later and more angular movement.

Last number is the angle to the VAL. Basically the height of the pin. Small angles means the pin is high up. Large angles put the pin further down. Hope that helps..

For visuals, google Morich Dual Angle layout.
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themachine300

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 03:43:18 AM »
quote:
First number is the (drill?) angle. Basically the angle between the MB-pin and pin-axis. Larger angles put the MB closer to your thumb. Smaller angles closer to the VAL.

Middle number is the pin-to-pap distance. 3 3/8 is largest flare for most balls. Shorter gives you a smoother, lower flaring movement. Later will give you a later and more angular movement.

Last number is the angle to the VAL. Basically the height of the pin. Small angles means the pin is high up. Large angles put the pin further down. Hope that helps..

For visuals, google Morich Dual Angle layout.
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Penn State Mens Bowling


+1 that pretty much sums it up
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No Revs00300

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 05:11:38 AM »
This may help more.

The drill angle will dictate the overall length of the ball. The lower the number the earlier it will start hooking. The higher the number the more length the ball will have.

the pin to pap distance will control how much flare or traction the ball will have.

The val angle will dictate the backend strength or the response time to friction. The lower the number the quicker it will react off dry boards. The higher the number the slower it will respond to friction, giving a more controlled move off the spot.

I hope you understood this better.
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JohnP

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 10:51:49 AM »
quote:
5"45X42


To avoid confusion, the proper convention for writing this layout is 45/5/42, then the first number is drilling angle, the second is pin to PAP distance, and the third is the angle to the VAL.

 
quote:
5X3X3


The first number is the pin to PAP distance, the second number is the distance from the PAP to either the cg or mb (mb if the ball has a marked mb), and the third number is either the pin height above the midline or the pin to VAL distance (depending on which layout system is used).  --  JohnP

Edited on 5/5/2010 10:52 AM

Edited on 5/5/2010 9:47 PM
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Xcessive_Evil

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 10:53:51 AM »
quote:
This may help more.

The drill angle will dictate the overall length of the ball. The lower the number the earlier it will start hooking. The higher the number the more length the ball will have.

the pin to pap distance will control how much flare or traction the ball will have.

The val angle will dictate the backend strength or the response time to friction. The lower the number the quicker it will react off dry boards. The higher the number the slower it will respond to friction, giving a more controlled move off the spot.

I hope you understood this better.


+1


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bowler001

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2010, 02:14:08 PM »
quote:
quote:
5X3X3

the second number is the distance from the pin to either the cg or mb (mb if the ball has a marked mb),


John,

I think you meant to say PAP here and not pin. Second number should refer to distance from cg or mb to pap. Probably just a typo.
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Xcessive_Evil

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 02:48:40 PM »
I think he meant pin.  The 1st number should be MB to PAP, the second should be pin distance to PAP with the third being pin distance to VAL(or pin buffer)
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bowler001

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 03:53:33 PM »
Im 99.9% sure he didnt mean pin to cg/mb distance since thats a ball spec determined by the manufacturers. lol. As for the order of numbers, your 1st and 2nd are backwards, 1st is pin to pap, 2nd is pin to cg/mb, 3rd is pin buffer (typically to Val).

Here's a pretty detailed layout guideline from Storm that explains that technique.
http://stormbowling.com/drill-specs/PSA_Lightning_Stikes.pdf
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 03:54:27 PM »
Let's start the pool.......What did he mean?
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GTx2

bowler001

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2010, 03:59:57 PM »
I'll bet every dollar in my pocket. That's like 6 bucks. JohnP isn't wrong very often, so I highly doubt he intended that.

And for Xcessive_Evil, here's Storms standard PSA layout guide using # X # layouts, which also explains what the first number is (pin to pap), and sencond number (pin to mb), then offers different options pin buffer distances.

http://stormbowling.com/drill-specs/psa_drill-right-reading.pdf
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witesoxwoz22

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 06:22:37 PM »
Appreciate all the feedback.  I've seen the "dual angle" #'s when describing layouts on this BR more often, so I just wanted to get a better understanding.
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- woz
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JohnP

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Re: Understanding Layouts 101
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 09:50:48 PM »
quote:

John,

I think you meant to say PAP here and not pin. Second number should refer to distance from cg or mb to pap. Probably just a typo.
 


You are absolutely right, the second number is PAP to cg or mb.  I must have had a brain explosion!  --  JohnP
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