win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb  (Read 9940 times)

xrayjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« on: December 04, 2011, 11:47:12 AM »
Real quick:

 I've decided to switch to the IT system instead of the thumb mold, and tweak my thumb pitch this weekend.

At 1/4 reverse, no matter how tight I make my thumb be, I still grab. Especially when I am tired or under pressure.

Have any of you gone forward pitch with your thumb? And, what is your span?

Is it a wrong time to do this in the season?

Thanks for any suggestions or advice given....

I'll update my progress...(rushing out the door)


 Tag Team Coaching Success Story   AKA: addik
 
Edited by xrayjay on 12/12/2011 at 9:54 PM
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

 

dna300x

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 01:25:01 PM »
I typically use black 1 3/8 Vise thumb slugs, but have been experimenting with the IT system as I am particular about my bevel and prefer a rougher feel.

 

My span and thumb hinge indicated a need for 5/16 reverse pitch which was what my pro shop operators drilled for years. I got a job in the pro shop as a teenager and did some experimentation on my own.

 

Like you I found that no matter how tight I made the hole, I still squeezed the crap out of the ball.

 

I just drilled up a piece for myself one day as a gag at 1/4 forward just to see what would happen. I was pleasantly surprised with what I had done.

 

I backed off a little on it to only an 1/8 forward in the thumb, but I definitely have a more secure grip now. I should add that this was probably a major benefit to me seeing as how I have a relatively short thumb and moist skin. I use a lot of rosin on my thumb like Wes Malott too.

 

My spans are 4 3/4 and 4 7/8 full so the traditional methods would be up in arms. I don't see it as a detriment at all.

 

I should make a note though. I find that the size of the hole becomes a little more critical, or at least for me it does. I have to go a little bit bigger than before and add two pieces of tape in my ball. I find in game 1 both pieces work, gm 2. I take one piece out, and gm 3 all the tape comes out. If you get the thumb too tight, it may be difficult to get that good, clean release we're all striving for.

 

I hope this helps


Darren Andretta
Motiv/Vise Inserts Regional Staff
www.motivbowling.com
Get MOTIVated!
Darren Andretta
Vise Staff
www.viseinserts.com

ImBackInTheGame

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1022
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2011, 02:34:13 PM »
If you ever read any of Ron Clifton's articles, he strongly believes that most people have too much reverse pitch and should try moving it forward.
 
My span is around 5" and if you go by the "chart" it says I should have 7/16 reverse pitch for my thumb.  My first driller did 1/8 reverse, couldn't get out of the ball, second driller changed to what the chart said (7/16), didn't like it, moved to 5/16 reverse and it's better, but I think I could go a little more forward than that.  

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 02:40:35 PM »
Darren,
 
For whatever it's worth- 
What you posted ran no special bells for me until I saw your span. My change was less radical but still a change: I went from 3/8" to 1/4" reverse to zero about 3 years ago. My span is now 4 3/4". At one time it was 5" with the 3/8" reverse. I went to 4 15/16" with the 1/4" reverse and stopped at the current 0 rev/fwd.
 
My thumb is also relatively flexible compared to many and roughly 2 3/4" long.
 
Also I found I needed much less tape and was less sensitive to the amount of tape in the ball. I still feel most comfortable when I almost have to jam my thumb in the ball, very similar to what I learned Chris Barnes does. I use thumb tape on the back of my thumb to prevent blistering from too much use.

xrayjay,
 
FWIW I am considering going to the next step down, 1/8" forward. I had tried it previously but I believe it did not work for me because I did not reduce my span again. The further the forward pitch you use, the less force/pressure you have to apply to hold onto the ball. BUT you must remember to reduce your span somewhat, at the same time, unless your current span is already on the shorter side.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

 
 
Edited by charlest on 12/5/2011 at 3:44 PM
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

xrayjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 06:13:46 PM »
Thanks for the great info guys.

 

According to the chart, I should be 1/4 reverse. 

 

Anyway, my span (on the short side) is 4 1/2 on both fingers. it was shorten by 1/16th and 1/8th couple years back, and I should of gone forward then. I'll try "0" or "1/8" forward to start and go from there. It'll be costly to do this, but I think it's time for a change...

 

 

 

 


 Tag Team Coaching Success Story   AKA: addik
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

JustRico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 07:01:29 PM »
You should not making changes that are greater of 1/8" at a tiime to help gauge future changes. Make sure you have the proper grip/span then adjust pitch around it.


The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
BowlTEc on facebook...www.iBowlTec.com

xrayjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 07:28:08 PM »
Alright... Good to know....


 
JustRico wrote on 12/5/2011 8:01 PM:
You should not making changes that are greater of 1/8" at a tiime to help gauge future changes. Make sure you have the proper grip/span then adjust pitch around it.


The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.


 Tag Team Coaching Success Story   AKA: addik
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 08:29:41 PM »
I'm using 1 1/2 inch forward and one inch lateral "OUT" pitch!

 

Can anyone beat that?

 

REgards,

 

Luckylefty

 


It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 08:38:40 PM »
I would not be interested in beating that. It's too far on the extreme side for me.
 
LuckyLefty wrote on 12/5/2011 9:29 PM:
I'm using 1 1/2 inch forward and one inch lateral "OUT" pitch!

Can anyone beat that?

REgards,

 

Luckylefty



It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana


"None are so blind as those who will not see."

 
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

makpa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2011, 04:25:37 AM »
if you use any taper it should be possible. I have a span of 4 1/2 - 4 3/8 and i have 3/8 forward, but i have to use taper otherwise i cant release the ball.


LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2011, 08:44:18 AM »
I left the bevel the same and have nerve damage under the base of my thumb.

 

My average is down 20 points and I can't hook it anymore.

 

I used to use 5 1/8 span now I use 3 7/8.

 

Am I headed in the right direction?

 

Regards,

 

Luckylefty


It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

StupidHambone

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2011, 10:00:45 AM »
Long story short, I had a horrible driller when i started bowling. I was at 3/8 reverse when i started. Didn't know any better at the time so I just assumed it was right. Did research and went to someone else. He shrunk my span by 1/4 of an inch, yes it was off by that much, and move my thumb to 1/4 forward. Haven't looked back since and loved it from the first ball i threw.



milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2011, 10:08:57 AM »
Good Post! I attended one of Ron's clinics this summer and was having some wrist issues I suspected were being caused by my ball fit. One of the first things Ron did was check my thumb pitch and recommended a change. Since working with Ron, my wrist is no longer an issue and my average is up 10+ pins over last year.
 
ImBackInTheGame wrote on 12/5/2011 3:34 PM:
If you ever read any of Ron Clifton's articles, he strongly believes that most people have too much reverse pitch and should try moving it forward.
 
My span is around 5" and if you go by the "chart" it says I should have 7/16 reverse pitch for my thumb.  My first driller did 1/8 reverse, couldn't get out of the ball, second driller changed to what the chart said (7/16), didn't like it, moved to 5/16 reverse and it's better, but I think I could go a little more forward than that.  
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

xrayjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 11:22:44 AM »

 milo...did you attend the one clinic in Woodland, CA.? I believe the guy helping me was from woodland shop from what I've heard. Anyway, can't wait to get this started.



milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 11:08 AM:
Good Post! I attended one of Ron's clinics this summer and was having some wrist issues I suspected were being caused by my ball fit. One of the first things Ron did was check my thumb pitch and recommended a change. Since working with Ron, my wrist is no longer an issue and my average is up 10+ pins over last year.
 



ImBackInTheGame wrote on 12/5/2011 3:34 PM:
If you ever read any of Ron Clifton's articles, he strongly believes that most people have too much reverse pitch and should try moving it forward.

 

My span is around 5" and if you go by the "chart" it says I should have 7/16 reverse pitch for my thumb.  My first driller did 1/8 reverse, couldn't get out of the ball, second driller changed to what the chart said (7/16), didn't like it, moved to 5/16 reverse and it's better, but I think I could go a little more forward than that.  


 Tag Team Coaching Success Story   AKA: addik
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: UPDATE: Your thoughts on the IT and forward pitch in the thumb
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 01:19:43 PM »
Yep, the Woodland clinic. Not sure who has the pro-shop there now, but it was Lonnie Cavins previously. Lonnie's wife is now the GM of Woodhaven, so Lonnie moved to Landpark with his shop.
 
xrayjay wrote on 12/6/2011 12:22 PM:

 milo...did you attend the one clinic in Woodland, CA.? I believe the guy helping me was from woodland shop from what I've heard. Anyway, can't wait to get this started.



milorafferty wrote on 12/6/2011 11:08 AM:
Good Post! I attended one of Ron's clinics this summer and was having some wrist issues I suspected were being caused by my ball fit. One of the first things Ron did was check my thumb pitch and recommended a change. Since working with Ron, my wrist is no longer an issue and my average is up 10+ pins over last year.
 



ImBackInTheGame wrote on 12/5/2011 3:34 PM:
If you ever read any of Ron Clifton's articles, he strongly believes that most people have too much reverse pitch and should try moving it forward.

 

My span is around 5" and if you go by the "chart" it says I should have 7/16 reverse pitch for my thumb.  My first driller did 1/8 reverse, couldn't get out of the ball, second driller changed to what the chart said (7/16), didn't like it, moved to 5/16 reverse and it's better, but I think I could go a little more forward than that.  


 Tag Team Coaching Success Story   AKA: addik
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."