Author Topic: Question for New Guy. (Read 5098 times)

Next Level PS · « **on:** February 27, 2003, 05:47:52 AM »

Just reading this month issue of BTM, Mo Pinels article on PSA. New Guy what is spin time to reach PSA on some of your products i.e the Element, Thing and Vendetta. I know it might be slower because of it being sysmetrical cores?

Strider · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2003, 08:11:41 AM »

For what it's worth, I believe that Mo said that the balls were spun at 415 rpm. Supposedly the "average" bowlers rev rate.
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Strider
Penn State Proud
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say

seadrive · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2003, 08:55:33 AM »

I thought the average league bowler's rev rate was below 300. 415 sounds way too high to be "average".
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl.

Edited on 2/28/2003 10:26 AM

Strider · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:12:31 AM »

That's why I added the quotes to "average". It might be close to the average pro's rpm, but I don't know.
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Strider
Penn State Proud
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say

Next Level PS · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:26:51 AM »

Hey, New Guy I mean no direspect I love your equipment I have Vendetta,VP, Element and Just received the the Thing yesterday. Are you planing to put out a asymetrical ball in the future why or why not.

Thanks
V2 thans means Vendetta 2

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:35:15 AM »

quote:
For what it's worth, I believe that Mo said that the balls were spun at 415 rpm. Supposedly the "average" bowlers rev rate.
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Strider

No. I am pretty sure he said the average "good" bowler's rev rate, not the average bowler. I'm sure he implied the average PBA bowler.

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:41:31 AM »

My point of view from reading both Mo's article and Mike Riggin's article in Bowlers' Journal is that spin rate is a way of actually measuring a factor that Bowlign This month has been referring to for years as the "Torque" of a ball.

It is basically a way to measure the "flippibility" of a ball. Polished and pearls have, by their inherent nature, a high degree of skid/flip-i-ness (pardon the made-up word); dull balls have less flip, mostly because they grab the lanes so early.

However, in Mo's article and method he stabilizes some factors in order to reduce variables involved: namingthe surface of th eball, which he sets to 1500 grit snaded, and the rev rate of the machine, 415, to what he consideres th erev rat eof a *GOOD* bowler, and the surface of the device that contacts and actually spins the ball - a hard urethane wheel.

Keep in mind that, as Phil, indicates, this is just one factor involved in determining the utility of a ball for a bowler.

omegabowler · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2003, 10:53:05 AM »

it's like ENRON accounting. Numbers can show anything. No disrespect to the Mo. but the fastest ball to reach it's PSA was 9.17 secs. who the heck throws that slow? friction and rev's were constant. truly not a real world situation. only slow speed high rev players will get anything. and even then, would not a symmetrical core work for them. after your thumb hole hits the core it's asymmetrical anyway. as long as there is top weight, all balls, over all weight distribution(dynamics) will be asymmetrical . did Mo drill holes in the ball?

even by using his x and y reference line the ball is is divided into 4 quadrants(pieces) the imbalance between these pieces are what really matter.

I believe the importance is in having the y axis as your track(tilt) and x as the initail PAP. the real reaction comes in the migration of the imbalance to balance points. like having a 4x4 tall core stand up as it enter the pocket.
or a 1x1 just laying down the hole way.

Edited on 2/28/2003 2:52 PM

T-GOD · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2003, 08:21:42 PM »

King, no disrespect, but friction slows down the rev rate.

Symmetrical core balls are much easier to read and control. Thus, giving you higher and more consistant scoring. =:^D

Next Level PS · « **Reply #9 on:** September 08, 2003, 10:01:56 PM »

TTT, had to bring this back because the great debate may start tonight.
i.e Bill Taylor VS Mo Pinel.
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www.bowlritelanes.com

Next Level PS · « **Reply #10 on:** September 08, 2003, 10:15:28 PM »

quote:
King, no disrespect, but friction slows down the rev rate.

Symmetrical core balls are much easier to read and control. Thus, giving you higher and more consistant scoring. =:^D

Hmmm

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www.bowlritelanes.com

seadrive · « **Reply #11 on:** September 09, 2003, 10:38:22 AM »

quote:
TTT, had to bring this back because the great debate may start tonight.
i.e Bill Taylor VS Mo Pinel.

To what would you be referring? What debate? Where?

Hey vortex, I like your hours: Monday-Friday and Saturday-Sunday. Don't you ever sleep?

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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl

Next Level PS · « **Reply #12 on:** September 09, 2003, 11:08:30 AM »

Hey the house designed the site I'm just happy they put me on it but I do EAT, SLEEP, DRINK AND $&*T BOWLING especially the tech part of it. Then I try to fit my Family in. LOL.
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www.bowlritelanes.com

charlest · « **Reply #13 on:** September 09, 2003, 04:00:47 PM »

quote:
We do not see any credibility or correlation between the spin times and improved scoring. Thus we do not spin any of our products. Those that do and attempt to make any assumptions about one product vs another are simply comparing apples to oranges. Some people are hanging their hats on that aspect or "gimmick" as a sound method of measuring ball strength or performance, that is a grave mistake.

Mo offered some long technical explanations in a few issues of Bowlign THis Month about PSA determinations and several of the factors involved in spinning the ball to get times. There seem to be too many factors involved, even though he did fix many of them, which helped define the issue somewhat. It does seem to have too many variables, even afte rexchanging a couple of emails with Fred Carrol, Morich's Director of Technical Services, I remained confused, and that doesn't happen often.

FWIW I understand how 3"+ of pin distance can emulate strong Mass Bias. The idea of a strong Mass Bias fixing the PSA in one gneral area is *intersting*, but I am unsure of its utility; Mr. Pinel indicates this makes the ball more versatile.

OK, you want a rant, you got a rant:
Even with all the oil we *CAN* have these days, for the most part, we get far more dry than we get oil. This era of super strong hooking balls with humongous backends favor the people who either never learned to bowl or who want to NOT have to hurt (!) their hand by actually applying 3 or 4 (!) whole revolutions to a ball. And, NO, I am not a cranker. Whether this is good or bad is irrelevant. I wish there were less talk of power available from balls and more talk of bowling.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

charlest · « **Reply #14 on:** September 09, 2003, 04:02:25 PM »

quote:
Just reading this month issue of BTM, Mo Pinels article on PSA. New Guy what is spin time to reach PSA on some of your products i.e the Element, Thing and Vendetta. I know it might be slower because of it being sysmetrical cores?

FYI Bowlers' Journal started publishing them as part of their reviews. As far as I have seen, symmetric balls talk longer to stabilize than MB balls or they never stabilize, if that has any import at all.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

Author Topic: Question for New Guy. (Read 5098 times)

Next Level PS

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