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Author Topic: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing  (Read 6181 times)

sammy the sage

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Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« on: June 13, 2006, 12:20:03 AM »
Reactions: Designed to be longer than the Big One, with increased backend ball reaction.

Coverstock: GB 12.1 sanded with 500-grit Abralon

Talk about total contradiction....500 grit designed to go long...yet soak up more oil....???

something's rotten in denmark....please explain....some ebonite staffer/bowler???

sounds like a "snake-oil" pitch to me....

 

BallsDeep

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2006, 02:26:57 PM »
quote:

i believe we did hear an answer about the diff.
"ron wanted to design a core like that" our question was why???
it's obvious that were not going to get answer here!!!!
just some double talk, maybe ron's running for office!!!!!!

anyway two customer's who have purchased the big one saw ron's comment's about," if you wanta know, come to the seminar."
they were not happy with that type of response.

i won't repeat their comment's about him. they thought he was, well never mind,



He pretty clearly explains it.  The large disparity in the differentials of 15lb and 16lb ones is necessary to maintain the same reaction between the 15 and 16 lbers.  I would imagine that if they shared the same differential the 16lb version would be stronger.  There was and maybe still is a video on the web site showing a 16lb and 15 lb One being thrown on the same condition with the same surface prep and drilling and the reactions are identical.
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the pizz

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2006, 04:34:24 PM »
the average bowler that walks in to a pro shop doesnt understand or really care about rg/diff stats...  and even more so .. your better scratch bowlers probably dont understand too much about it either.  sadly there are some pro shop operators that dont get it too.
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Jeff Ussery

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2006, 12:09:11 PM »
I wanted to clarify my opinion on the Infinite One after posting my review on my website and ball reviews.

My Infinite One comes very close in length to my Big One and easily covers more boards in the backend of the lane.  But do realize that my Infinite One was drilled slightly more aggressive and does flare earlier in the reaction.

It is my belief that the Infinite One is being marketed properly, and given two identical drilling patters, you will see the results that Ebonite is reporting.

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the pizz

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2006, 04:16:40 PM »
JLS, i do not know too much about the paradigm or EPX, but what i do know is ebonite products and at the time of the release of the ONE it was "potentially" the most hook you could get from an ebonite ball. It covered more boards than the TIME, Xcel and V2 lines. So with that said.. it was their "heavy oil" ball. for me the ONE (oob) outhooked my XXXcel (oob) by a significant amount which was my heavy oil ball at the time. so the ball did what it was supposed to and it did that for alot of people. then the Big One came out with the same exact core only a stronger cover. which gives it a more midlane read with the same continous back end motion. now the Infinite one is slated to go as long (which it does) and has a stronger back end reaction than the previous Ones.

now you know as well as i do when people get a new ball they cant wait to punch it up and throw it. some do their research but others do not. you have to remember that when a new product comes out.. sometimes the proshop operators dont exactly know what the ball is gonna do. and youre supposed to put your trust in them to drill the ball perfectly to your game?? then when u dont like it you come on this site and blame the company for "false advertisement" or "my ball doesnt do what its supposed to" when you should go back to the pro shop and rant there. all companies test their products and have the data to back up what they promote. and ebonite even offers the advice on how to drill the ball because the Mass Bias plays a huge role in the ball's performance. thats there for a reason.

if you want to better your game you should be patient enough to ask questions from many sources. watch others who are using the ball you want to buy and see what layouts they are using. find the likes and dislikes of that layout. dont drill a ball just to drill a ball create a "stepladder" arsenal.   all this stuff is important because as you said "so excuse us mere mortals,  many who actually have to BUY their balls with their MONEY.  not blessed to be on a staff and receive all your balls free. so when a ball comes out that you don't like.  you sell it or give it away. didn't cost you anything" i used my own money to buy my equipment for a long time. my full staff status just started 5-1-06 where the year before i was paying $50 a ball and the year before that i was paying full price, but regardless if the ball is free or paid i still take the same approach in deciding how i want a ball to be drilled, i ask the staff guys and my pro shop guy what they think but i also trust the person who drills my stuff (billy myers jr) and im not saying everyball works for me.. my 1st One didnt roll good for me so i bought another one. the time series didnt work for me either (money spent) so dont think that all people who get freebees now didnt pay their dues or have forgotten that "the mortals" expect the results they pay for.
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northface28

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2006, 05:40:19 PM »
While many sing to the mountain tops about, there are also many the have MAJOR qualms with the ball. I happened to be one that had a qualm with the ball. Is it Ebonites fault? No. Is it my drillers fault? No. Is it my fault? Yes. I had a layout in mind, went with it, and the ball ending up being a dud for me. I guess I took one for the "alleged" team. You live and you learn, hopefully you dont have to pay $200+ for your errors.
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sammy the sage

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2006, 10:17:24 PM »
ah..finally some people get my point...and jls said it best...

"" once again, just because Ron or any ball company says it, does not always make it so.
there are many bowlers who bought the One believing that it was for heavy oil
in the box finish. we now know that was not always accurate, sure some bowler's with a ton of hand could get it to move, but many needed it brought down to 500-1000 cover""

It's all about marketing and semantics.....

oh and by the way....Ron....does polish affect the gb "coverstocks" oil soaking ability???

that fact has never been addressed...lol

cause your gonna have to polish it to get it to go long as "EBONITE" claims....ie...I have the one and big one....tried the big one at 500 grit....couldn't even use on pba's 43 ft shark pattern...too strong....

so as jls pointed out before....parden us bowler's who shell out the $200+ for a ball if we're a little skeptical about a "stronger" ball that will "get" throught the heads at 500 grit....????

BallsDeep

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2006, 11:00:46 PM »
I think you mis understood my reply, I meant to say that your explanation was adequate.  A post was made that said that you were giving a smoke screen sort of answer, however as I now look, it seems that that post has been removed.  I, while not really understanding how the mb diff interacts with the weight of the ball and differential, do understand your main point. That the discrepency in differential makes the 16lb and 15lb versions closer in reaction than they would have been if the differentials were identical or closer.  That the change in differential was necessary to maintain the same reaction among different weights.
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thegame

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2006, 12:51:18 AM »
I think the thing that gets most bowlers honked off the most is the advertising of a ball to be for oil, when it's the first release in a line (The One for example).  Ebonite is surely not the only company that has done this from time to time.  The company has a plan for the entire line I'm sure well in advance, what hook potentials the balls will use, approximate release dates, etc.  And yes, maybe at the time The One was one of the biggest hooking balls Ebonite had out, but they knew full well, they were coming out with a bigger hooking ball (two in this case) that will both be better suited for oil conditions.  So, average Joe Bowler buys The One, needing an oil ball, and is peeved when The Big One comes out a couple months later, realizing The One isn't grabbing early enough in oil for his needs.  Now his choice is spend the extra money for The Big One, or be a bit depressed trying to make adjustments to get The One to move and carry in oil.  
I have probably been a bit too harsh on Ebonite in this post, as I said, all companies do it, Columbia comes out with their Bully saying it's an oil ball, then the Big Bully....same story.  All this being said, I am considering an Infinite One as a future purchase, needing a medium-heavy oil ball, and feeling it's an excellent piece.  The main reason for this post was just to give Ebonite, and other companies who may be reading, a bit of a customers view as to what we appreciate, and what ticks us.

Jorge300

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2006, 09:27:09 AM »
JLS, I know you've been a little ticked about the way everyone has been talking about the Infinite One, based on your posts anyway. And thegame brings up another excellent point. One last peice to this, is the fact that the coverstocks designed for balls now are only going to last for a small number of games. I have a big one that has about 100 games on it. It has now started to lose reaction. I have cleaned it, tried a burgandy scotch pad, and then adding a little polish to it, to no avail. I just recently purchased a ball spinner so some of the cleaning was done by hand and not as effective, I will admit. But, no one seems to care we spend more and more on balls, that die sooner and sooner. Now, no ball company wants balls to last forever, or they wouldn't make any money, but if you give bowlers a good product that lasts longer then some of the other companies, you just may get a customer to purchase other balls from that company for his aresenal. Just seems like this is an overlooked item, to me anyway. JMHO
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302efi

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2006, 03:05:19 PM »
quote:
jls you need to quit singling me out in your posts, if you have something to say about me, say it to me privately or message me your shop's number and we can talk about it over the phone.

All I've done is tried to post a helpful review and you've done nothing but bash the f*ck out of me because I receive free stuff and because you think I'm on this high horse for it. Maybe you should read posts I've made in the past yrs and judge me from that. Its prick's like you that turn sh!t around on people and then we are the assh0les with attitudes because we don't want to help cuz we repeatedly get bashed for it.

Have a good day.




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Paul Smith
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Since you bowl for Ebonite and try to sell there products, I don't think that responses like this will help your career or sell many balls...Just a thought

I know your pissed because you think your getting bash, you gotta remember all the reveiws you post is suppose to be a selling point for Ebonite gear.

You want all the poeple to read your reveiw and get a idea to purchase said ball. Your not going to please every customer...Just don't cuss at the selling market, make you look bad & that in turn makes Ebonite look bad

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Jorge300

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2006, 03:46:44 PM »
JLS, sorry if I put words into your mouth, no tmy intention. Just really wanted to add another peice to the discussion.

Pizz, wow buddy, chill. I think JLS has a point and I agree with 302 that it doesn't look good to Ebonite that one if it's representatives is going off like that. You get the good and the bad in your role, and need to act the same to both. I will not classify JLS' post either way, but it's clear you have but that had to be a better way to handle then an explative laden post like that.
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Jorge300

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woodzx12

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2006, 04:45:26 PM »
hey i loved the big one and i am a 219 bowler and just shot 805 on monday. the reason for this reply is for the infinite one. i just cant see how ebonite can say that this cover at 500 will be strong through the heads and will have more backend than the big one.to me that ball will roll up early and will be hard for the average bowler to handle. i dont know 5% of the bowlers that can swing this ball out over 5th arrow and bring the ball back into the pocket. i think what you have to do to this ball is work with the cover and it might take a little time to get it right. but the average bowler will not do that and that is why i think that ebonite should not say what the are promoting this ball will do. if you sand the infinite one to 4000 you wood have a big one with a beffed up coverstock for even heavier oil. you should not talk to jls that way because this man knows what he is talking about....  every ball he drilled for me has been perfect. i just told him what i needed  and he told me what ball to get.as a shop owner you must tell the customer the facts because if he buys that ball and it does not work for him but ebonite says it will who are the coming to back to. they are going to say that this ball sucks and that is his fault. he cant give them there money back. so this customer will never buy ebonite products again. once again i am not bashing ebonite i love there products and i will buy the infinite one to try it out. 2 800 series this year with the big one. and 2 300 games.

ambi1

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Re: Am totally confused...infinite one marketing
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2006, 02:04:13 AM »
The topic is getting interesting.. and so far no one has really been nasty, which is good.

In a way each is correct in their own way..

Ebonite has claimed a certain combination which runs counter to logic, and of course should expect sketpticism.  However not all can go to their seminars and maybe Ron was just in a hurry and couldn't really post all details.  Thing is, I'm pretty sure there was no intent to insult.. and hopefully the two client who were put off, get over it.

Who knows, they may have developed a very strong cover which is extremely sensitive to oil (not react at all) which would account for clearing the heads. The 500 grit is needed to turn the corner, but why dry is encountered, the ball reacts strongly (all this is conjecture, but chemistry is a weird thing.) Also remember the inverted core. (There are a lot of people more knowledgeable about this, so my apologies if I am not correct about the effect of the core.)

That said i am in total agreement with The game and JLS re marketing, which is why I usually wait a while to get balls.  

It would really help if certain standards were use universally, like heavy oil =50 to 60 unit etc, but I guess that's asking for too much.
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