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Author Topic: asymetrical or symetrical or centrix symetrical  (Read 2287 times)

jls

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asymetrical or symetrical or centrix symetrical
« on: April 07, 2006, 01:59:43 AM »
maybe someone from Ebonite,  a ball rep or a tech can come on board and help settle this issue.  because the one and big one are such high mb balls.
everyone seems to believe they are asymetrical cores.
however ebonite  list it as  CENTREX SYMETRICAL MASS BIAS,
and actually if they would not mind going to the columbia board to answer this
question.

 

heatcell9

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Re: asymetrical or symetrical or centrix symetrical
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2006, 10:16:58 AM »
The Sciox Symmetrical core design is a Symmetrical Mass Bias Core.  This allows the core to be more versatile, both in drilling and in ball motion prediction.

as i understand it mass bias is making one side heavier than the rest of the core. so in the case of the new symetrical mass bias balls the densisites are changed to acheive this. or in the case of the one the internal core of the core is a different density and possibly offset to one side. the outer core is symetric but the inner creates the mass bias. the robo core from track(roborule,machine) is based on the same principles. i could be wroing though.

jls

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Re: asymetrical or symetrical or centrix symetrical
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2006, 10:23:15 AM »
oh i know it's centrix symetrical,  i would hope someone from ebonite
would come on board and say so,  most people assume it's asymetrical.
because of the strong drilling's ebonite wants used on the ball.

shelley

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Re: asymetrical or symetrical or centrix symetrical
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2006, 11:01:20 AM »
Forget symmetric/asymmetric.  A better term in the case is mass bias.  The ball has a mass bias.  Other cores like, say, some of the Morpheus core and the old Morich Ravage core, clearly have more mass on one side than the other.  There simply isn't mass on the other side.  The Centrex core has more mass on one side than the other and they use different density materials to do it.  The RAD core from Storm is the same way.  Storm shows you which pieces have different densities by coloring the discs differently on the website.  Ebonite doesn't.

Asymmetric, mass bias, whatever.  Both mean the ball has a preferred spin axis.  And PSA is, to my mind, a much better term.  Some balls, like the Zones, it's not obvious which side of the ball is heavier than the other, there's no clear mass bias.  Likewise with the Vanguard core.  Without weighing it, there's just no way to say "there's more stuff over here on this side".

But we measure the strength of that asymmetry, that mass bias, by putting it on a deTerminator and measuring how long it takes to reach its preferred spin axis.  We also measure the RGs on three axes and that also provides a differential to indicate strength, but three-axis RG values aren't always given.

SH

heatcell9

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Re: asymetrical or symetrical or centrix symetrical
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2006, 11:08:54 AM »
all balls have a psa symetric or not. mass bias is the difference in weight from each side and the center to side. you can clearly see how the morich vanguard core is different. looking at a side view you can see that one side is flat and one side has a "hump".
the best example ive seen so far to explain mass bias is a coffee cup. the cup portion is symetric but the handle is the "mass bias" if you drop it the handle will begin to move toward the ground first.

shelley

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Re: asymetrical or symetrical or centrix symetrical
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2006, 11:37:34 AM »
quote:
all balls have a psa symetric or not. mass bias is the difference in weight from each side and the center to side.


But what we typically think of as symmetric balls don't always have a PSA.  Technically, there's a mass bias.  No argument.  That's what creates pin-out, after all.  But a mass bias in the typical bowling sense, no, they don't.  Put it on a deTerminator and if it settles on an axis at all, it'll take a long time.  That's why what we call symmetric balls don't have spin times and intermediate differentials listed.

SH

heatcell9

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Re: asymetrical or symetrical or centrix symetrical
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2006, 11:54:03 AM »
mass bias does not creat pinout. pinout is the distane from cg-to pin. pin only locates the top of the core. everything has a psa. i could put myself in a machine to spin me around and araound, my body would move to the point that it spins best.
technically speaking any ball where the cg and pin are not in line are mass bias balls overall. the core may be symetric but as the top of the coreis not inline with the cg so the core is not really in the center of the ball, making one side of the ball heavier than the other.

heatcell9

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Re: asymetrical or symetrical or centrix symetrical
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2006, 11:57:17 AM »
this is nearing too close to the cg debate now. so im going to just stop.