Author Topic: Mission (Read 10370 times)

mainzer · « **on:** January 24, 2010, 04:43:46 AM »

Looked pretty good today on the t.v. show. Looked like it was coming back from anywhere and everywhere is was throwen
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"His Loyalty couldnt be bought at any price
but it could be rented remarkably cheaply"
-Inquisitor Allendyne-

Founding Father of the BR Inquisition

MainzerPower

completebowler · « **Reply #31 on:** January 24, 2010, 07:39:12 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
Beat yourselves up, it is still about cover stock roughness average.
Match up with that first.
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Ambassador Of Bowling

Well Doc that's exactly what I am trying to explain to SkidTap. He jumped on me about 'core shape'. This is exactly what the ball companies want people to believe.

Now....if you take R2S solid in an Attitude Shift you will see a difference. Much stronger core AND asymmetric.

But if SkidTap's argument had any merit then all the single diamond L1 balls with PowerKoil 18 would be identical because they are the same shaped core. Nevermind that they changed the specs by moving little diamonds inside the SAME SHAPE and by CHANGING THE SPECS changed the motion.

As I said....CORE SHAPE has very little effect on ball motion unless it changes the specs. Since Storm did not do this with the Reigns they are GLORIFIED T-ROADS.
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You're grossly over-simplifying this. Remember, the shape of the core itself is only one part of the total sum that is the core. You have to consider the shape, the density, the placement of those higher and lower density areas, and most importantly how the core is changed after you drill into it. So, yes, core shape DOES most certainly have an effect on how a ball rolls, even if it isn't just because of "how the core looks."

Dan I am not saying core shape has NO effect....I am simply saying it has a small, small effect on ball motion. I was just at the drilling/motion seminar by Mo Pinel last week. This discussion was covered. Until the core shape/pucks/dense pieces change the specs it has almost zero effect on overall motion.

There are 15-20 things according to the study that effect ball motion more. The top 7 are cover/friction issues. Thus, the ball has similar specs, exact same cover and therefore is really a new version of the T-Road line.

But if you guys believe it is the newest, greatest, bestest thing out.....go for it.
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Dan Belcher · « **Reply #32 on:** January 24, 2010, 07:44:33 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Beat yourselves up, it is still about cover stock roughness average.
Match up with that first.
--------------------
Ambassador Of Bowling

Well Doc that's exactly what I am trying to explain to SkidTap. He jumped on me about 'core shape'. This is exactly what the ball companies want people to believe.

Now....if you take R2S solid in an Attitude Shift you will see a difference. Much stronger core AND asymmetric.

But if SkidTap's argument had any merit then all the single diamond L1 balls with PowerKoil 18 would be identical because they are the same shaped core. Nevermind that they changed the specs by moving little diamonds inside the SAME SHAPE and by CHANGING THE SPECS changed the motion.

As I said....CORE SHAPE has very little effect on ball motion unless it changes the specs. Since Storm did not do this with the Reigns they are GLORIFIED T-ROADS.
--------------------

You're grossly over-simplifying this. Remember, the shape of the core itself is only one part of the total sum that is the core. You have to consider the shape, the density, the placement of those higher and lower density areas, and most importantly how the core is changed after you drill into it. So, yes, core shape DOES most certainly have an effect on how a ball rolls, even if it isn't just because of "how the core looks."

Dan I am not saying core shape has NO effect....I am simply saying it has a small, small effect on ball motion. I was just at the drilling/motion seminar by Mo Pinel last week. This discussion was covered. Until the core shape/pucks/dense pieces change the specs it has almost zero effect on overall motion.

There are 15-20 things according to the study that effect ball motion more. The top 7 are cover/friction issues. Thus, the ball has similar specs, exact same cover and therefore is really a new version of the T-Road line.

But if you guys believe it is the newest, greatest, bestest thing out.....go for it.
--------------------

I'm not arguing that if has a huge impact, but it sounded like you were completely dismissing it. I know that I've seen both the T-Road Pearl and Reign thrown and there IS a difference, but it's only a couple boards at most, and the biggest difference is just in how quickly the Reign responds downlane. If you already had a brand new T-Road Pearl, there'd be no sense in buying the Reign. However, if you don't have one, or if your T-Road Pearl has a couple hundred games on it and doesn't have the same response to friction it once did, the Reign is exactly that -- an improved version and a more-than-worthy replacement. (I'm a sucker for the Reign -- best medium oil ball I've ever thrown)

completebowler · « **Reply #33 on:** January 24, 2010, 08:34:52 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Beat yourselves up, it is still about cover stock roughness average.
Match up with that first.
--------------------
Ambassador Of Bowling

Well Doc that's exactly what I am trying to explain to SkidTap. He jumped on me about 'core shape'. This is exactly what the ball companies want people to believe.

Now....if you take R2S solid in an Attitude Shift you will see a difference. Much stronger core AND asymmetric.

But if SkidTap's argument had any merit then all the single diamond L1 balls with PowerKoil 18 would be identical because they are the same shaped core. Nevermind that they changed the specs by moving little diamonds inside the SAME SHAPE and by CHANGING THE SPECS changed the motion.

As I said....CORE SHAPE has very little effect on ball motion unless it changes the specs. Since Storm did not do this with the Reigns they are GLORIFIED T-ROADS.
--------------------

You're grossly over-simplifying this. Remember, the shape of the core itself is only one part of the total sum that is the core. You have to consider the shape, the density, the placement of those higher and lower density areas, and most importantly how the core is changed after you drill into it. So, yes, core shape DOES most certainly have an effect on how a ball rolls, even if it isn't just because of "how the core looks."

Dan I am not saying core shape has NO effect....I am simply saying it has a small, small effect on ball motion. I was just at the drilling/motion seminar by Mo Pinel last week. This discussion was covered. Until the core shape/pucks/dense pieces change the specs it has almost zero effect on overall motion.

There are 15-20 things according to the study that effect ball motion more. The top 7 are cover/friction issues. Thus, the ball has similar specs, exact same cover and therefore is really a new version of the T-Road line.

But if you guys believe it is the newest, greatest, bestest thing out.....go for it.
--------------------

I'm not arguing that if has a huge impact, but it sounded like you were completely dismissing it. I know that I've seen both the T-Road Pearl and Reign thrown and there IS a difference, but it's only a couple boards at most, and the biggest difference is just in how quickly the Reign responds downlane. If you already had a brand new T-Road Pearl, there'd be no sense in buying the Reign. However, if you don't have one, or if your T-Road Pearl has a couple hundred games on it and doesn't have the same response to friction it once did, the Reign is exactly that -- an improved version and a more-than-worthy replacement. (I'm a sucker for the Reign -- best medium oil ball I've ever thrown)

Yes I do realize sanding a pearl is not the same as a solid. That's why I mentioned "tweaking" the cover on a Gravity. Not proposing sanding it down to 500 in order to make it look like a VG but the difference between it and a VE is small enough that more texture under a polish can achieve a near identical motion.

And yes you will see a diff between a new Reign and a used T-Road pearl. But I guarantee a brand new version of each drilled identically will give you zero perceptible difference. Too many of the same factors where it counts the most.

I also agree that if you liked T-Roads and can't find one these will be WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL replacements and great balls overall. The covers are awesome. I love R2S....have talked to Storm tech about getting a solid with the RAD+ in it because a block that dynamically different WILL be much different.
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tburky · « **Reply #34 on:** January 25, 2010, 04:19:24 AM »

Storm still uses the RAD core overseas with the r2s covers.http://www.stormbowling.com/products/balls/exclusive

completebowler · « **Reply #35 on:** January 25, 2010, 05:18:35 AM »

quote:
Storm still uses the RAD core overseas with the r2s covers.http://www.stormbowling.com/products/balls/exclusive

I know tburky...I have 4 of those overseas Dominations and I LOVE them....I think they are the best stuff Storm has ever put out on the high end. I loved my Attitude Shifts too (had 3 of them) which is why I have talked to the regional rep and online with the tech dept on whether they will put R2S Solid on that core.

There are no plans from what they tell me so I have to wait till I can stumble onto a Complete Dom (I think) cause it has the hybrid on it.

Tks for the link though.
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tburky · « **Reply #36 on:** January 25, 2010, 09:07:42 PM »

quote:
quote:
Storm still uses the RAD core overseas with the r2s covers.http://www.stormbowling.com/products/balls/exclusive

I know tburky...I have 4 of those overseas Dominations and I LOVE them....I think they are the best stuff Storm has ever put out on the high end. I loved my Attitude Shifts too (had 3 of them) which is why I have talked to the regional rep and online with the tech dept on whether they will put R2S Solid on that core.

There are no plans from what they tell me so I have to wait till I can stumble onto a Complete Dom (I think) cause it has the hybrid on it.

Tks for the link though.
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I always liked the rad core. I wish they would use the r2s solid and pearl here on that core.

completebowler · « **Reply #37 on:** January 26, 2010, 06:39:14 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
Storm still uses the RAD core overseas with the r2s covers.http://www.stormbowling.com/products/balls/exclusive

I know tburky...I have 4 of those overseas Dominations and I LOVE them....I think they are the best stuff Storm has ever put out on the high end. I loved my Attitude Shifts too (had 3 of them) which is why I have talked to the regional rep and online with the tech dept on whether they will put R2S Solid on that core.

There are no plans from what they tell me so I have to wait till I can stumble onto a Complete Dom (I think) cause it has the hybrid on it.

Tks for the link though.
--------------------

I always liked the rad core. I wish they would use the r2s solid and pearl here on that core.

I have an Xtacy Dom (r2s pearl), just traded my Xtacy Tour (r2x pearl)to my brother and he shot 300/794 first night out with it. I have a World Dom (r2s pearl) NIB sitting in the closet.

The Rad+ core is Storm's strongest asymmetric ever which is another reason I am unhappy with the R and D there. They stepped away from that core because of to manufacture.

My brother picked up a Super Dom (r2x solid w mica) and it makes a VG look like a particle. Bigger and stronger in the back.

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EboStaff10 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 26, 2010, 12:25:43 PM »

the point of the Virtual Gravity is that the ball is strong but is lengthy...any company can make a strong early ball but the VG is strong, great length and continuous just as the Invasion is...now on the other side...every high end ball is going to decline if it is not maintened properly (no matter what company)...The Mission is, I feel, the match and even better than the VG...The Mission is very clean through the heads and continuous...I have talked to testers from hoptown and many have upwards of 200 games with no surface maintenance other than putting it back to factory 2000 and the ball is still strong. Ebonite corp. does have some great product out right now...end of story
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BOWL TO WIN
JenXXX Pro Shop

completebowler · « **Reply #39 on:** January 26, 2010, 12:41:22 PM »

quote:
the point of the Virtual Gravity is that the ball is strong but is lengthy...any company can make a strong early ball but the VG is strong, great length and continuous just as the Invasion is...now on the other side...every high end ball is going to decline if it is not maintened properly (no matter what company)...The Mission is, I feel, the match and even better than the VG...The Mission is very clean through the heads and continuous...I have talked to testers from hoptown and many have upwards of 200 games with no surface maintenance other than putting it back to factory 2000 and the ball is still strong. Ebonite corp. does have some great product out right now...end of story
--------------------
BOWL TO WIN
JenXXX Pro Shop

+1000....Ebonite is rebounding quite nicely these days. The Big 4 are ALL putting out very good products as evidenced by seeing more and more on Sundays.

I have pretty much shelved my Mutant in favor of the Magic Action. It seems to do everything just a tad better. Not bashing the Mutant...it is a great piece...just a testament to Ebonite International.
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River700 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 01, 2010, 03:40:50 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Quote
Beat yourselves up, it is still about cover stock roughness average.
Match up with that first.
--------------------
Ambassador Of Bowling

Well Doc that's exactly what I am trying to explain to SkidTap. He jumped on me about 'core shape'. This is exactly what the ball companies want people to believe.

Now....if you take R2S solid in an Attitude Shift you will see a difference. Much stronger core AND asymmetric.

But if SkidTap's argument had any merit then all the single diamond L1 balls with PowerKoil 18 would be identical because they are the same shaped core. Nevermind that they changed the specs by moving little diamonds inside the SAME SHAPE and by CHANGING THE SPECS changed the motion.

As I said....CORE SHAPE has very little effect on ball motion unless it changes the specs. Since Storm did not do this with the Reigns they are GLORIFIED T-ROADS.
--------------------

You're grossly over-simplifying this. Remember, the shape of the core itself is only one part of the total sum that is the core. You have to consider the shape, the density, the placement of those higher and lower density areas, and most importantly how the core is changed after you drill into it. So, yes, core shape DOES most certainly have an effect on how a ball rolls, even if it isn't just because of "how the core looks."

Dan I am not saying core shape has NO effect....I am simply saying it has a small, small effect on ball motion. I was just at the drilling/motion seminar by Mo Pinel last week. This discussion was covered. Until the core shape/pucks/dense pieces change the specs it has almost zero effect on overall motion.

There are 15-20 things according to the study that effect ball motion more. The top 7 are cover/friction issues. Thus, the ball has similar specs, exact same cover and therefore is really a new version of the T-Road line.

But if you guys believe it is the newest, greatest, bestest thing out.....go for it.
--------------------

I'm not arguing that if has a huge impact, but it sounded like you were completely dismissing it. I know that I've seen both the T-Road Pearl and Reign thrown and there IS a difference, but it's only a couple boards at most, and the biggest difference is just in how quickly the Reign responds downlane. If you already had a brand new T-Road Pearl, there'd be no sense in buying the Reign. However, if you don't have one, or if your T-Road Pearl has a couple hundred games on it and doesn't have the same response to friction it once did, the Reign is exactly that -- an improved version and a more-than-worthy replacement. (I'm a sucker for the Reign -- best medium oil ball I've ever thrown)

Yes I do realize sanding a pearl is not the same as a solid. That's why I mentioned "tweaking" the cover on a Gravity. Not proposing sanding it down to 500 in order to make it look like a VG but the difference between it and a VE is small enough that more texture under a polish can achieve a near identical motion.

And yes you will see a diff between a new Reign and a used T-Road pearl. But I guarantee a brand new version of each drilled identically will give you zero perceptible difference. Too many of the same factors where it counts the most.

I also agree that if you liked T-Roads and can't find one these will be WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL replacements and great balls overall. The covers are awesome. I love R2S....have talked to Storm tech about getting a solid with the RAD+ in it because a block that dynamically different WILL be much different.
--------------------

I have two paradigm passions, one a pro cg ball, and one a regular pin, cg, mas bias, and boy do they rev and hook even in oil, they are a beast! I also would like to see storm bring back the rad + core and put a a solid R2S cover on it. That would be one strong ball kind of like the vg and invasion combined.
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Bowling is fun, enjoy it, don't hate it

toomanytenpins · « **Reply #41 on:** February 02, 2010, 01:12:37 AM »

i must agree ms. k looked much better throwing it than mr fagan,but i am sure he just got way to excited he had an awesome look and it was his first win. For a minute i didnt think he could throw it too far right
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my style, the art of bowling without bowling

Author Topic: Mission (Read 10370 times)

mainzer

Mission

completebowler

Re: Mission

Dan Belcher

Re: Mission

completebowler

Re: Mission

tburky

Re: Mission

completebowler

Re: Mission

tburky

Re: Mission

completebowler

Re: Mission

EboStaff10

Re: Mission

completebowler

Re: Mission

River700

Re: Mission

toomanytenpins

Re: Mission