win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: the big one dying out?  (Read 5592 times)

pinoypc

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
the big one dying out?
« on: January 31, 2006, 07:56:08 AM »
I'm planning on getting the big one, but am concerned with it dying out like storm bowls. I've never owned an ebonite ball before so i am not familiar with how long these balls usually last (assuming i clean the ball after each use). My Storm trifecta stopped hooking after about 30-40 games.

 

BowlerKidR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2024
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2006, 04:00:32 PM »
dont even thing about this happening. It is exactly The One without pollish on it. The one does not quit without the polish, so if you just follow teh drilling instructions and drill it with the recomended drillings, dont worry about the ball dying out, unless you bowl on lanes that dont get oiled.

--------------------
"Strike for show, spare for dough"
I LIKE TO BOWL
Im A Hammer Head 100%

a_ak57

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10584
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2006, 04:09:30 PM »
quote:
dont even thing about this happening. It is exactly The One without pollish on it. The one does not quit without the polish, so if you just follow teh drilling instructions and drill it with the recomended drillings, dont worry about the ball dying out, unless you bowl on lanes that dont get oiled.

--------------------
"Strike for show, spare for dough"
I LIKE TO BOWL
Im A Hammer Head 100%

The Big One isn't exactly the One without polish.....GB 10.7 on The ONe, GB 11.2 on the Big One.  Ronald Hickland says the big one will be a couple feet earlier and 5-7 boards stronger at the break.  If they were the same ball, that wouldn't be true.
--------------------
- Andy

Leftyhi-trak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2288
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2006, 04:33:39 PM »
If you are that worried "Docs Magic Elixir" look it up if you don't know what its for.

pjr300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1487
  • Live from the Bowling Capital of the World!
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 06:46:18 PM »

I haven't owned Storm stuff.... do they really die after 40 games?????


--------------------
pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
pjr300
Specs and Transaction history in my profile...

DRUFER

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 07:11:09 PM »
quote:

I haven't owned Storm stuff.... do they really die after 40 games?????





Not any of the storm stuff that I have owned....ive had to preform some maintence after 100+ games.

kid51178

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 81
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 08:13:08 PM »
If your storm died that quick but it is the dishwasher on the short cycle, it will pull the oil back out, should give it a new life.

--------------------
Tim

You guys always complicate everything.

"A good friend will not come bail you out of jail....
But a true friend will be sitting next to you saying .

WE screwed up!"

SKIDSNAP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2006, 08:15:29 PM »
I agree with Nick's assertion.

Oil absorption will break the cover down. Multiple surface changes will only hasten this occurrence. Bowlers who throw a lot or "an insane amount of games" will see their One die at a quicker rate.  I have yet to see a logical explanation of how a ball absorbing oil at faster rates is good for the chemistry and the continuity of the cover.

Doesn't it just draw more and more dirt into the cover???

BAPS_Eric

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2006, 08:46:16 PM »
http://www.ebonite.com/products/accessories/hook_again/whyballsdie2.php

So the fact that the ball absorbs oil makes it die???  Hmmmmm....I don't agree with that.  There are way too many frictional characteristics of a bowling ball that can make it die out a WHOLE LOT QUICKER than oil absorbtion.  That old theory of ball death by oil should have been put to death years ago.  The urethane balls of old would die out if you didn't keep the cover clean, today you can leave a cover alone for awhile and still get a close reaction (1-2 boards)that it had when it was last cleaned or when you first got it.  So I don't buy oil absorbtion as a big part of ball death, it plays maybe 5% in any type of ball death since you have to absorb oil in order for it to hook.  Anyways most shots that are put out in houses are medium to light at best anymore, so more friction means tracks burn out and the plasticizer that is in the ball goes right to the track (ever notice that balls that "Die Out" look like plastic when they are thrown???).  I have drill about 4 One's and have yet to have a customer come in and say that their ball has died, and I know one of the guys has 100+ games on it.
--------------------
Bowling and women are one in the same....you never know what you gonna get from night to night.....

Edited on 1/31/2006 9:35 PM

SKIDSNAP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2006, 09:36:43 PM »
I respect your opinion but I still have yet to see a logical (scientific) explanation of how oil absorption does or does not affect the coverstock of a ONE.  I live in a market where a lot of Ones were sold and the list of dead ball complainers is growing.

My basic understanding of chemistry still causes me problems when you are filling the pores of one substance with another especially when you are talking about chemistry as dynamic lane oil and ball coverstock material.  Not to mention the dirt that gets absorbed with the oil.

SKIDSNAP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2006, 09:38:40 PM »
Maybe absorption is not the right concept.  How about the lane oil breaking down the chemistry of the covestock.

UCFKnight300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2006, 09:42:32 PM »
BAPS Eric, I will never agree with you.  Bowling ball's absorbtion of oil is the #1 reason for loss of reaction.  Too many personal and professional oil extractions done with positive results to make me think otherwise.  Put a lot of games on a ball and then bake it; and then throw it again and tell me that the loss of oil in the ball had nothing to do with it coming back to life.

PS.  Have never thrown an ebonite ball, so can't help those w/ the one questions, but the ball does look good i'll admit.
--------------------
University of Central Florida + Brunswick = Collegiate Domination

http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?ms=379&mp=5548&s=2005-2006

Edited on 1/31/2006 10:30 PM

gtghm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2006, 11:31:04 PM »
FWIW, I experienced the so called death of the one but I think I have figured out the trick. By the way, I know at least 2 other people that have the one, one of them has two of them, both reported changes in reaction where both said they had less reaction and hit than OB.

I have done the process that I describe on my One and on a One that was from one of the other guys with excellent results. In both cases the balls were not baked and there was probably less than 60 games on each ball, probably more like 30 on each.

I tried different process that did not have good results, so far I have only had sucess with doing the following:

I used a shop spinner and started with

Wet sand 80grit then 180grit then switched to 180grit abralon then 360abralon, 500abralon, 1000abralon, 2000abralon then 4000abralon. Each time I used a good amount of pressure and I did a half then flip 180 then 1/4 then flip 180 and switch to a differnt grit, all done wet.
Then dry ball. I used a good amount of the Ebonite Extender finish using the same rotation as the sand, Then I burned it in so the polish shell is hard and tacky.

Here I need to add that I got the info here that it was the Extender polish that was factory but since then I have read it to be actually the "Factory" finish, that being the case I assume that it would turn out the same just a bit tackier.

After I had completed the polishing I then duplicated what I had done to the surface after first drilling which in my case was a light scuffing with a gray pad by hand not on a spinner, and my ball is back to the hit it was out of the box.

I did this to one of the other guys and same thing, I didn't scuff it in the end because he was an out of the box surface guy.

My theroy on why I think it worked and the whole key at least for those that didn't do any major surface adjustments out of the box and had great sucess only to see it die away, is the polish. Both the Extender and Factory finish remind me of the Bruns factory polish and I really liked that stuff, but the thing that I noticed using both tpyes of polish is that they work best IMHO if you apply a generous amount and burn it in until it creates a real hard tacky shiny shell. When I did this to the One, it seemed like it gave the shell it's POP back and I think it was because the pollish stiffens the cover enough to allow it to pop. My though is that the cover is so soft that I think it almost needs that hard layer of polish for the shell to regain it's elasiticity.

For the guys that sanded them and have seen it degrade in hit after resufraceing up to your desired grit, I don't know what to suggest there. If the cover is losing pop because the shell is softer or at least seems like it is that way after the shell breaks in, one thing I might try is, soak it in hot water or what ever method you use to release the oil then resurface as I did and then take it back down to where you like it.

Just thought I'd mention my sucess in hopes it helps some one else out there, this ball is waaayy to good to die so soon.

Cheers,
"g"

Edited on 2/1/2006 0:26 AM

ambi1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 769
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2006, 11:38:29 PM »
quote:

I haven't owned Storm stuff.... do they really die after 40 games?????


--------------------
pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World



I have a 5 year old storm PBT eraser.. still doing good. I really am wondering why people say balls die... I have several old balls, the performance usually tapers off significantly only after I have about 1500+ - 2500+ games on them
--------------------


DARK BEER IT IS THEN!


DARK BEER IT IS THEN!

ambi1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 769
Re: the big one dying out?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2006, 11:41:37 PM »
quote:
If any ball has the potential to die out, it is the one.  The reason balls die is because the coverstock becomes saturated with oil, not allowing the cover to react.  Since the one soaks up sooooo much oil, the rate at which it "dies" or stops reacting is much greater.  I bowl an insane amount of games a week and my one died after two months.  I also plugged it 3 times with grip changes in those two months.  I also messed with the cover A LOT, trying different reactions.  I suggest keeping your one clean, not cleaned with abralon or cleaned with scotch brite, but just windex and paper towels.  Do not mess with the surface that much, because that also accelerates the "death" of the ball, at least that's what I heard from ebonite people in reno.  Basically, keep very clean, don't give the oil a chance so seep into the cover too deep and don't f with the surface too much.


Nick -- if you are able and willing, perhaps this could be a good chance to do a "revival" experiment on the ball??  Maybe the Hook-again system or just plain 600-800-1000-2500 sanding/polishing??
--------------------


DARK BEER IT IS THEN!

Edited on 2/1/2006 0:29 AM


DARK BEER IT IS THEN!