Author Topic: Hammer MB Strong Position (Read 3040 times)

adman · « **on:** January 09, 2008, 08:12:05 AM »

Hi all,

On Hammer's Bite drill sheet, they make reference to their "MB Strong position". For a right handed, medium track player, would this be within 2 inches right of the thumb hole? I'm looking for a specified distance or range for the "strong position" and they don't really state strong = 1 inch or 2inches, etc.

Thanks

bluerrpilot · « **Reply #1 on:** January 09, 2008, 04:48:48 PM »

its more like a distance or angle from your PAP or VAL
--------------------
Team HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM

"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Edited on 1/9/2008 5:50 PM

mrbowlingnut · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2008, 05:21:18 PM »

They have dumified the drilling instructions, 45 degrees would right in the ball park for strong position. You would think they would state an exact mb to pap distance, but they must believe they have alot of idiots drilling there stuff.

Back when Brian Pursel was in charge he had much better instructions then the current Brian has on the current sheets.

micbowl · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2008, 05:22:21 PM »

Measuring by inches is not as accurate as the degree system because everyone's pap is different. Mass bias at 75 degree is a very strong position. Consult with your pro. He can explain it more in detail.

bowlr227 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2008, 06:01:27 PM »

Hey Nut, in Graham's defense, Hammer wasn't even on the map until he took the position. He's making it very easy for pro shops to drill hammer balls. I appreciate the simplicity of the hammer brand and it seems many other customers feel the same way based on their recent success. That is my opinion though.

adman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2008, 07:21:18 PM »

Thanks. I was just questioning my understanding and wanted some more opinions. I was going to go with a 45 Degree layout as well.

Thanks again

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2008, 08:09:50 PM »

quote:
Thanks. I was just questioning my understanding and wanted some more opinions. I was going to go with a 45 Degree layout as well.

Thanks again

I believe, for the average player (revs, ball speed, tilt, angle of rotation) that 45 degrees is early; 75 degrees is strong, in general.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ

Michbowler · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2008, 08:37:28 PM »

It surprises me how much emphasis seems to go into the mass bias when, according to this chart I found online, it accounts for very little of the ball reaction.

THAT FACTORS AFFECT REACTION ON THE BOWLING BALL (GENERALIZATION):
Generally accepted as follows:
1- Coverstock and surface preparation 65-70%
2- Core 15-20%
3- Pin placement and Dynamic weights 10-15%
4- Mass Bias 0-10%
5- Balance hole 0-5%
6- Static Weights 0-2%

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2008, 09:28:41 PM »

quote:
It surprises me how much emphasis seems to go into the mass bias when, according to this chart I found online, it accounts for very little of the ball reaction.

THAT FACTORS AFFECT REACTION ON THE BOWLING BALL (GENERALIZATION):
Generally accepted as follows:
1- Coverstock and surface preparation 65-70%
2- Core 15-20%
3- Pin placement and Dynamic weights 10-15%
4- Mass Bias 0-10%
5- Balance hole 0-5%
6- Static Weights 0-2%

It depends on the strength of the Mass bias. It can have a profound effect on the ball's reaction. Charts are basic generalizations. You can't use them in the case of any particular ball.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ

micbowl · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2008, 09:38:28 PM »

Michbowler

The surface, core and pin placement affects the ball reaction in the front of the lane as to how long or early the ball will start react to the pocket. By placing the mb at 45 degrees the ball when reacting toward the pocket will get into a earlier roll and not skid toward the pocket which is what you want on heavier conditions. Mb at 75 degrees will give you the sharpest break or skid/snap reaction which is great playing deep and mb at 90 degree will produce a smoother reaction in the back which plays well on dryer backends. There are other degrees you can use but these three are very commonly used. Try them yourself and you see the differences which will help you match up better on difference conditions. Good luck.

don coyote · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2008, 09:51:45 PM »

The mass bias of the LEVRG IS .033 and the mass bias of the NSANE IS .035.
Are these balls MB strenght the exception or the norm? Do these balls require different drillings? The MO-RICH drilling sheet seems to have very different drilling patterns than most other ball manfacturers.Is the strong position
(3 3/8") from val,(or pal) still considered the MOST strong position? Or
is the strong position a degree of where the MB is as it relates to the pin?
INQURIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!!

shelley · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2008, 10:04:53 PM »

quote:
The mass bias of the LEVRG IS .033 and the mass bias of the NSANE IS .035.
Are these balls MB strenght the exception or the norm? Do these balls require different drillings?

For the time being, those are the exceptions rather than the norm, they are a pretty substantial jump over the MB diffs of the past two or three years, which are also a big jump over the typical MB diffs of five years ago. The norm today is somewhere between 0.018 and 0.025, and most asymmetrics have mid-diffs in that range. The Zones, Twisted Fury, Paradigms, Shifts, Machines, Morich's Vanguard-cored balls, Epics, Ones, they're pretty much in that range. Spin times in the 5-6s range.

Older Zones like the Vapor Zone and Zone Classic, the Rules, X-factors, they were a little lower, and going back to, say the Freak line from Track there were a lot of 0.015 and lower mid-diffs.

The stronger the MB, the more effect it has on ball reaction and the more important it is to get the placement correct. In general, the same techniques you use for one asymmetric are applicable to others. The biggest caveat is that with the new 0.020" and stronger asyms, placing the MB on the negative side of the ball can do funny things to the flare. You could do that with, say, a Freak or X-factor, now if you want to duplicate that type of reaction (what most people would call "label"), you put the MB under the thumb but not past it.

SH

SpareK · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2008, 10:22:49 PM »

Is the Mas bias Reference of 75 degrees from one's PAP? If not what is the reference point?
A>A

bluerrpilot · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2008, 10:25:42 PM »

quote:
Is the Mas bias Reference of 75 degrees from one's PAP? If not what is the reference point?
A>A

Yes...Draw a line from the pin to the MB. The mark out 75 degrees and draw another line. Along that second line is where the PAP is
--------------------
Team HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM

"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Author Topic: Hammer MB Strong Position (Read 3040 times)

adman

Hammer MB Strong Position

bluerrpilot

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

mrbowlingnut

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

micbowl

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

bowlr227

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

adman

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

charlest

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

Michbowler

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

charlest

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

micbowl

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

don coyote

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

shelley

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

SpareK

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position

bluerrpilot

Re: Hammer MB Strong Position