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Author Topic: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............  (Read 3829 times)

Nodsleinad

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Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« on: September 08, 2006, 05:13:26 AM »
Ball guru for Hammer.  I was asking him about my Purple Vibe & the Blue Vibe i just punched holes in.  I was asking his suggestions on adjusting some surfaces onthose Vibes (Great balls) and we got talking about lighter to dry lane balls that will get length and recovery.  His view was that No One makes a great Ball for that shot.  You need differential (DF) to get around the corner and carry and when to much (df) is in the ball it is tough to get the ball long enuff. Milder covers just do not recover great and when older model balls are used with less aggressive covers those balls in general do not like the modern oils we use.

I can agree pretty much... I am a power tweener bowler at least and I am constantly forced deep on late night shifts and it is a must to have a ball that will get long enuff and still recover for good entry angle.  Their are very few in my eyes.

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BackToBasics

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2006, 02:37:50 PM »
I agree with him mostly.  The main problem with most so called dry lanes balls is that they use the wrong approach IMHO.  They mostly use strong covers and eliminate the core and/or flare.  Well, the covers are too strong when they really hook and then the low flare makes the ball very squirty downlane.  They thus have very limited use.  Balls like the Dry Heat, Desert Heat, Tornado, Scout/R, etc aren't the best solutions because I believe the covers are way too strong.  Most of them have the same covers as their medium oil balls (Power Plus, Super Flex, etc).  So the Dry Heat and Desert Heat sometimes hooked as much as other balls on some conditions because of the strong cover.

I believe the best type of ball would be one with a weaker cover, med-high RG with a diff of .045 or greater. I'm talking a generation or 2 backwards in cover.  This gives you options in terms of flare management and surface adjustment upwards if you are getting too much length.  You can go with longer pins too to create length but still manage enough flare for recovery.  I believe a ball that was very close to this was the Stinger 2piece Pearl.  Very high diff with a weaker cover.  Ball worked wonders on Team Challenges and other lanes where length and recovery was needed. I wish I had kept them because the Stinger Low Flare didn't match its performance.  The only drawback is that there's a very limited market for such a ball.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2006, 11:25:58 AM »
What about balls like the Razor Wire from Storm...near that diff with weaker cover...(i found it was great on fresh so so on carrydown).

REgards,

Luckylefty
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BackToBasics

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2006, 11:51:03 AM »
The Razor and Barbed wires intriqued me because of the specs but I never got a chance to throw them due to my contractual obligations at the time.  The few I saw seemed to be very clean through the fronts but a little squirty at times.  But I always felt a tad surface change (like 4000 grit) would help.  They definately seemed like a possibly solution.

Nodsleinad

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2006, 12:09:04 PM »
Razor was to strong and Barb was just not enough....

Vibes are best for average cost.

Sahara is pretty good but more Xpensive

Nod
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charlest

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2006, 12:45:04 PM »
quote:
... The main problem with most so called dry lanes balls is that they use the wrong approach IMHO.  They mostly use strong covers and eliminate the core and/or flare.  Well, the covers are too strong when they really hook and then the low flare makes the ball very squirty downlane.  They thus have very limited use.  Balls like the Dry Heat, Desert Heat, Tornado, Scout/R, etc aren't the best solutions because I believe the covers are way too strong. ...

I believe the best type of ball would be one with a weaker cover, med-high RG with a diff of .045 or greater. I'm talking a generation or 2 backwards in cover.  This gives you options in terms of flare management and surface adjustment upwards if you are getting too much length.  You can go with longer pins too to create length but still manage enough flare for recovery. ...


This is why I use the Brunswick Slay/R. The cover is EXTREMELY weak, yet the core is a medium strength QUantum mushroon core with a .043 differential.

It is also why I never bought a Desert Heat: that cover is just too strong, no matter how mild the core is.

Plus those weak core many times make the ball only suitable for playing the 10 board and further outside. Only strong tweeners or crankers can use the inside where you often have to be.

I think a Green Gargoyle, kept polished, would also be great for this tyoe of shot.

The Barbed and Razor Wires were of a similar nature to the Slay/R. They only differed by their surface stock finish. Their core's specs are very close to the Slay/R. Both, if surfaced properly should be good dry lane balls, becasue of their RG differential.

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Edited on 9/13/2006 12:39 PM
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

triggerman

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2006, 12:52:05 PM »
best drier lane ball i ever had was the hammer claw reactive, weak core, weak cover but still reactive and could make the turn, worked wonderfully well on toasted up conditons when eveything else is too strong
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rob_mil13

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2006, 12:54:05 PM »
Speaking from experience the Barbed Wire is too strong to be a true "dry" lane ball. More of a medium to medium-light. Similiar to the new Tropicals, which also seem too strong for true dry shots....JMO.

charlest

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2006, 01:12:52 PM »
quote:
Speaking from experience the Barbed Wire is too strong to be a true "dry" lane ball. More of a medium to medium-light. Similiar to the new Tropicals, which also seem too strong for true dry shots....JMO.



You'd be surprised what a 2000 grit or 4000 grit sanding plus a dose of polish can do with the right drilling on such a ball!
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 05:01:23 AM »
I think that a revival of the black (or burgundy) Pure Hammer would be a nice solution. They just need a higher RG core, because the low RG from the classic Hammer core (also used in many Blades) bleeds energy quickly when the ball hits dry ground. Maybe change densities or add a low density nucleus in the core - and this ball would IMHO be anything for late games one could ask for.
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charlest

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 07:36:34 AM »
quote:
I think that a revival of the black (or burgundy) Pure Hammer would be a nice solution. They just need a higher RG core, because the low RG from the classic Hammer core (also used in many Blades) bleeds energy quickly when the ball hits dry ground. Maybe change densities or add a low density nucleus in the core - and this ball would IMHO be anything for late games one could ask for.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Team "X" website & more about me: http://web.mac.com/timlinked/iWeb/X/Thomas.html
"The Future's So Bright I Gotta Wear Shades" - Pat MacDonald



Just get as long a pin-CG as you can and put the pin up as high as you can;
OR
sand the cover to 4000 grit and then re-polish it to make it go longer and be even weaker;
OR
just buy a pancake cored resin ball;
or
a pearl urethane ball.

This ball is similar to the Slay/R and a good dry-ish lanes ball JUST because the cover is so weak. Pairing it with a "normal" or "average" core is a great move.  There are plenty of weak core with weak covers. The weak cover + normal core provides many more opportunities and provides and much more useful overall ball.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2006, 03:59:13 AM »
BrianN, I am 100% with you. Itis a tough job to build or find a ball for light to dry conditions. I guess it is the consequence of ball reaction magnification through the high friction environment. Both length and revs have bigger effects than on oil.
Additionally, the dynamic effects of a ball's core might become more obvious. Personally, I have tried half a dozen balls for light conditions, and so far I haven't found a solution for the really late and scorched shot. I tried:

TPC Shooter
Reaction Rip
Sahara (all 3 good for light oil in tehri setup, but not less)
Red Pearl Urethane Hammer (the pancake core remake - no roll and therefore hard to control, but excellent dry lane option "above" a polyester)
Power Groove Dry/R (could be the ball, but my 2nd hand specimen was a dud with an unextected killer top weight and negative flare - skids like the Red Pearl, no room for error)
Black Pure Hammer (drilled for length, length, length; still quite condition specific, but goes into the right direction. Too low RG, I think).

I have now a Slate Blue Gargoyle in stock, already drilled but have not played it yet, but I think that this ball will be the best option for my style.

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charlest

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2006, 07:58:29 AM »
dizzy,

don't forget that no one ball will suit all dry-ish lane conditions.

Some of those balls you tried are not true  light oil balls: The Rip and the Red Pearl Hammer are so far at opposite ends of the spectrum. The Rip uses SuperFlex. That will hook at the heads when the lanes are dry. Pancake cored pearl urethane are VERY condition and release sepcific.

The Dry/R is for very dry lanes, but may not be sutiable for some conditions and releases.

I think most people need at least 2 versions of dry balls IF they are building an arsenal. One that can be a spare ball which is obviously for very dry lanes. The SLate Blue or the LAne#1 XXXL (which is a dynamic cored polyester ball) are two potentials. The next step up is a ball like the SLay/R or the Dry/R or Tropical Storm or the Burgundy Pure Hammer which will handle the next step up in oil.

Balls like the Dry/R and Tropical Storm are relatively very expensive. I'd suggest getting a new one with good specs so you can adjust the surface and re-drill as needed to find the RIGHT ball for you.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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chitown

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Re: Interesting chat with Brian Graham.............
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2006, 09:40:34 AM »
I think that the best approach is to learn a dry lane release.