Author Topic: Opinions on the Big Kahuna (Read 4137 times)

302efi · « **on:** December 25, 2006, 12:36:27 AM »

Whats some honest opinions on the BK ?

I've read that the ball is not as strong as its advertised to be, so I'm looking for some real world input

My stats are in my profile.

The ball in question is laid out pin below ring, cg stacked, no x-hole.
Not really sure what I'm looking for outta this ball, just wanna see what it will do.

Keep in mind that I've had a Masterpiece, World Class Particle & NS2 turn out to do nothing for me...but I've also had a Big Bang (particle) turn out to be a monster ball in my hands (also has the same drill as the BK in question)

Thanx in advance & merry Christmas !

--------------------
Roto-Grip & Lane #1

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** December 25, 2006, 04:41:39 PM »

Ok, maybe I better publish a formal review of this ball as many times as I've answered this question.

Personally, I like/love this ball for mediums to medium-heavy oil patterns. It has replaced my old standard, the original New Standard, in my affections. Mine is drilled 4.5"x5", pin in the ring finger, stock surface (wouldn't dare change it.). This ball needs head oil, must have head oil for my ball speed (I mean it is a solid particle). I can play anywhere from down the 5 board to as deep as between 3rd & 4th arrow out to 5/6 board at breakpoint. I, personally, can't go deeper because of the drill and the ball's relatively low RG DIfferential, approx .036.

Actually it is so useful in that range of oil and lines to the pocket, I have no need to play deeper.

Also because of the low RG differential, the ball does not hook as much as some other Legends balls with larger differentials: Black Pearl, Yeah Baby and New Standard, BUT it is not a small hooking ball.

The relatively small hook gives the bowler (me, in this case) a sense of confidence; yet the backend is relatively sharp, with tons of drive. If I didn't know it was a solid particle, I'd call it a skid/flip reaction. However, as we all know, a unpolished solid particle cannot behave that way ...

I heartily recommend the ball, if your ego can stand the onerous weight of not covering every board on the lane.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

302efi · « **Reply #2 on:** December 25, 2006, 06:42:30 PM »

quote:
I heartily recommend the ball, if your ego can stand the onerous weight of not covering every board on the lane.

Ouch ! That hurts

So from what your saying this a skid/flip control ball ?...lol

More of a strighter line, 10-13 board flip to the pocket. (all depending on the bowler ect...)

I have been looking for more of a "strighter" ball , maybe I might give this a shot

--------------------
Roto-Grip & Lane #1

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** December 25, 2006, 07:24:19 PM »

quote:
quote:
I heartily recommend the ball, if your ego can stand the onerous weight of not covering every board on the lane.

Ouch ! That hurts

So from what your saying this a skid/flip control ball ?...lol

Nope.
I'm saying for me & my release, for my drill, on the oil amounts I described, this ball has a very sharp breakpoint.

quote:

More of a strighter line, 10-13 board flip to the pocket. (all depending on the bowler ect...)

I described the extremes, but on average, on medium+, not quite true medium-heavy (in my opinion), I play 13/14 at the arrows out to 6/7 at the breakpoint approx 44-45 feet down lane.

quote:

I have been looking for more of a "strighter" ball , maybe I might give this a shot
--------------------
Roto-Grip & Lane #1

Compared to the New Standard, Masterpiece, the Yeah Baby and the World Class, it's one of the straighter (not straight) Legends particles. It still needs head oil, as far as my ball speed and release are concerned.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

scotts33 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 25, 2006, 07:36:56 PM »

quote:
Nope.
I'm saying for me & my release, for my drill, on the oil amounts I described, this ball has a very sharp breakpoint.

Two LM/L balls that I have owned and used. BK and Buzz the two biggest skid/slip balls they have produced at least for a symmetrical core.

For whatever reason mainly on lane condition used on I kept pinging tens with my BK. Sold it to axewelder/John.

BK and Kong seem to be two of the better medium balls with a skid/flip reaction from LM/L. They still are not the heavy skid/flip on The One series or a Black Widow....but that's a good thing.

--------------------
Scott

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** December 26, 2006, 04:04:18 AM »

quote:
quote:
Nope.
I'm saying for me & my release, for my drill, on the oil amounts I described, this ball has a very sharp breakpoint.

Two LM/L balls that I have owned and used. BK and Buzz the two biggest skid/slip balls they have produced at least for a symmetrical core.

For whatever reason mainly on lane condition used on I kept pinging tens with my BK. Sold it to axewelder/John.

BK and Kong seem to be two of the better medium balls with a skid/flip reaction from LM/L. They still are not the heavy skid/flip on The One series or a Black Widow....but that's a good thing.
--------------------
Scott

Scott,

You forgot the all important words, "In my opinion", and "In my experience".
If you don't do that, someone will come along and say, "it is not skid/flip" or "you're wrong and stupid" or some other such claptrap.

So many balls can be made to arc or to flip depending on drill and release and oil pattern used, that if you dare to classify a ball, someone will counter you.

I found the Kong kind of arc-y, but your ball high ball speed and rev rate made it more skid/flip. We both found the Bk to have the potential to flip on most oil patterns.

I sold my original Kong because it didn't work as advertised; then I realized my mistake and bought a second for what it does do. Sometimes arrogance can really come back to bite you on the a**! Reality is a great teacher.

I bet you'd find the Big R(eactive) Bang to be very skid/flip. I'm not even tempted to try it.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

302efi · « **Reply #6 on:** December 26, 2006, 04:28:57 AM »

quote:
You forgot the all important words, "In my opinion", and "In my experience".
If you don't do that, someone will come along and say, "it is not skid/flip" or "you're wrong and stupid" or some other such claptrap.

So many balls can be made to arc or to flip depending on drill and release and oil pattern used, that if you dare to classify a ball, someone will counter you.

I know you were pointing these comments towards Scott, but this post is in reference to a questions I asked about BK, so I assume your saying your that:

- I'm going to get the BK, it wont work for me, then I'll come on here and b1tch about it...

or

- I'll say the ball didn't work for me like "you" (read: whoever) said...

...or something similar.

I think most of the regular members of BR.com know that balls work different for different people. Having pointed that out the way you did in your second post, makes me think I asked a stupid question about the BK in your opinion.

I just wanted some general views of the ball since there is only a couple reviews about it.

3 of 4 of the last L/L balls I tried turned out to be duds for me. Maybe I didn't do enough research on them, maybe it was drilling problems, maybe L/L balls mostly don't work for me, whatever. I'm trying to consider some more possibilities this time by asking some input on the ball.
--------------------
Roto-Grip & Lane #1

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

Laybzz74 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 26, 2006, 07:11:17 AM »

Chad,
I understand your trepidation with the BK after your prior experiences with this line of equipment; speaking for myself, I've also had some issues with a few of their balls ... BUT looking back at those issues, I've deemed most of those issues to be "match up", layout, or coverstock issues, as opposed to the balls being "duds". Generally speaking, not all balls will work for all bowlers (hence the match up comment) and I've noticed that some roomies love the same ball that others hate ... being that there are SO many variables to consider when choosing a ball, you can wind up eithering loving or hating it.
IF a ball's cover/core combo is a good match to a bowler's style, IF the layout is a good match to said style, IF the cover is "tweaked" to match said style AND the ball is used on the proper conditions to maximize it's potential, then I'm quite sure that a bowler will LOVE it; if you reverse those parameters, then the ball could be considered a "dud".
Now ... what I have determined to this point for MY style and stats(in my profile) and based upon my experiences as well as some trial and error on layouts, the following work best for me on THS:
- TW around 3 oz,
- 2 1/2" to 4" pins,
- cg located right around my midline (on, slight above, or slightly below),
- pins located right around my ring (above, in, right of, or within that area),
- and finally, that I can "tweak" the ball reaction with coverstock adjustments and properly located balance holes to get the reaction that I'm looking for (I get these recommendations directly from Galen at LEGENDS after we chat extensively about the ball after prcticing with it on various conditions).

Regarding the prior threads in reply to your question, they are "shared experiences"(just as Charlest stated) and should be used IN GENERAL and as potential guidelines in your own selction process. WHEN I DOUBT, gather all of the information and variables that you can prior to selecting a ball and consult with someone "in the know" (IE - Galen, Pat or Anne Marie Duggan, etc) make a ball selection and to arrive at a compimentary layout; IF you do your homework, plug in all of the possible info available to you, and get a solid "match up", I'm quite sure that you'll could get a ball that is versatile enough to be satisfied with, and one that only needs a "tweaking" via a surface adjustment and/or a balance hole.
Again ... these comments an thoughts are my own and are based upon my persoanl experiences, what I've read, and what I've learned to date. As always, good luck ... and BOWL WELL !!!
--------------------
**** Official "L/LM ball junkie" ****
Man, I LOVE this game; and I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/LaneMasters equipment !!!
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!

Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email and PayPal addy)

302efi · « **Reply #8 on:** December 26, 2006, 07:30:29 AM »

Thanks for the reply Rob !...I hope Mike is showing you some things up there

As far as the BK and this thread, I didn't really expect charlest to come off the way he did...This comment was obvious a shot at me from my prior posts months about about my problems with NS2 & World Class Particle:

quote:
I heartily recommend the ball, if your ego can stand the onerous weight of not covering every board on the lane.

I tried to laugh it off, but then other comments are just too much...

Ah well...I'm just gonna pass on the BK, since it won't hook the lane I don't really need it after all

/thread closed
--------------------
Roto-Grip & Lane #1

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** December 26, 2006, 08:09:19 AM »

quote:
quote:
You forgot the all important words, "In my opinion", and "In my experience".
If you don't do that, someone will come along and say, "it is not skid/flip" or "you're wrong and stupid" or some other such claptrap.

So many balls can be made to arc or to flip depending on drill and release and oil pattern used, that if you dare to classify a ball, someone will counter you.

I know you were pointing these comments towards Scott, but this post is in reference to a questions I asked about BK, so I assume your saying your that:

- I'm going to get the BK, it wont work for me, then I'll come on here and b1tch about it...

No.

quote:

or

- I'll say the ball didn't work for me like "you" (read: whoever) said...

...or something similar.

No. I already answered your question. This was aimed strictly at Scott.

quote:

I think most of the regular members of BR.com know that balls work different for different people. Having pointed that out the way you did in your second post, makes me think I asked a stupid question about the BK in your opinion.

No, you did not aska stupid question. Please Do not read too much into an answer.

I have read your posts in the past and I don't regard as one of those people I pointed out to Scott. You have been here for a while; you should know by now that I try not to insult people, but I will tell them if I think they are wrong without trying to insult them.

quote:

I just wanted some general views of the ball since there is only a couple reviews about it.

3 of 4 of the last L/L balls I tried turned out to be duds for me. Maybe I didn't do enough research on them, maybe it was drilling problems, maybe L/L balls mostly don't work for me, whatever. I'm trying to consider some more possibilities this time by asking some input on the ball.
--------------------
Roto-Grip & Lane #1

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

I know that. I have read your comments and I have had more Legends and Lanemasters balls that did not work for me than you did. I had to try different drills and different surfaces for some of them.

My first Legends ball, the New Standard, worked great for me. That makes a HUGE difference in anyone's initial impressions of a ball company. While I tried more, not every one worked as a well. SOme didn't work at all. But every company has severla balls that work for everyone; you just have to find the right drill, surface and oil pattern to use them on.

There is no such thing as one company's balls not working for one person. Life and balls just don't work that way.

Every new set of covers and cores (and the LAnemasters and Legends balls are very different from everybody else's stuff) brings on its own challeneges. I am glad I stuck with them. I use a lot of their balls, not everyone, but there are some real gems in there.

I answered your questions specifically and as directly as I could and I meant exactly and precisely what I said. I don't know your release is or your ball speed or the lane conditions you're bowling on. All I can tell you is what I have found to work for me.

FWIW when I used a 15 lb BK I drilled it stacked pin under the ring, vs the pin in the ring in my current 16 lb ball and CG pin grip center. SO now my 16 is 4.5"x5", while my 15 lb was 4"x4" with the pin 1/2" lower. Both were so close in reaction I'd have a hard time telling them apart.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** December 26, 2006, 08:13:16 AM »

quote:
As far as the BK and this thread, I didn't really expect charlest to come off the way he did...This comment was obvious a shot at me from my prior posts months about about my problems with NS2 & World Class Particle:
/thread closed
--------------------
Roto-Grip & Lane #1

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

You've got to be kidding. Have you ever read any posts by me? I don't take cheap shots at anyone. I have and always will try to help.

Do you think I'd have posted a bunch of honest detailed replies to your questions and then taken a cheap shot at you?
Do you really believe that after reading my posts for a while here?
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Laybzz74 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2006, 08:14:15 AM »

Chad,
I reread his thread and I believe that you're reading into it and maybe are being just a little thin-skinned about it; I wouldn't take it personally.
--------------------
**** Official "L/LM ball junkie" ****
Man, I LOVE this game; and I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/LaneMasters equipment !!!
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!

Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email and PayPal addy)

Laybzz74 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2006, 08:17:10 AM »

As I said ...
--------------------
**** Official "L/LM ball junkie" ****
Man, I LOVE this game; and I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/LaneMasters equipment !!!
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!

Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email and PayPal addy)

arcright7 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2006, 10:43:58 AM »

302efi,

I have a BK and i have yet to find the proper ball surface and lane condition to suit it and me. I have had some success with it at very limited times, just not consistent enough to place it in my rotation. It does not impress as a big hooking ball to me as well. I am holding out hope that i can still come up with a solution for it.

On the other hand, i have a New Standard (original) that i can't put down right now. After having little to no success with it for a period of time, i made a coverstock adjustment a ended up with a whole new ball. Have been winning jackpots and scoring well on tournament shots ever since. I have since added...Big Bang (particle), Terminator, World Class (reactive), and the Black Pearl, all undrilled. Plan on adding a Buzz at some point. However, i will not put a single hole in either of them untill i have consulted with Lanemasters techs to determine a proper setup for me.

Lastly, i don't think Charlest's "intentions" were bad either. Yet i think a lesson is being learned here. That being "just answer the questions". Unless you have developed a relationship with another forum member that allows good natured teasing (which i see here all of the time), it is best to refrain from such responses. As this is a demonstration of what can occur. Charlest is taking calculated precaution's when offering "opinions". The same precaution's should be applied when adding touch comments.

Just my two cents, not to offend anyone.

ARC7.....................

scotts33 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2006, 11:09:18 AM »

302efi,

I believe Jeff's comments were more aimed at me and I take them seriously. Jeff and I go way back to the start of this website. Jeff's user ID goes back to 2002 and mine 2001 but I believe Jeff used another ID before that. I only say this to explain we have a history and Jeff is one of the most well informed posters on this site. I think the only time we have disagreed on anything was on the usage of EZ Slide.

Jeff's stats. and mine are very close so we can discuss many equipment issues and make many of the same conclusions. Plus we are both old farts or older than most on BR. Robb and Jim/Brick not included.

I never take umbrage on Jeff's opinions or many others either if they have some experience and knowledge to impart.

LM/L equipment being what it is.....is what's great about it. Very playable and carry well. For tougher lane conditions it works very well IMO. In fact, if lane conditions were a bit harder at most houses it may even sell better. The big over under balls wouldn't sell as they would be a disaster for most.

ARC7,

I'd play with the BK cover more. I didn't give my BK a long enough chance.
--------------------
Scott

Author Topic: Opinions on the Big Kahuna (Read 4137 times)

302efi

Opinions on the Big Kahuna

charlest

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

302efi

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

charlest

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

scotts33

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

charlest

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

302efi

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

Laybzz74

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

302efi

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

charlest

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

charlest

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

Laybzz74

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

Laybzz74

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

arcright7

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna

scotts33

Re: Opinions on the Big Kahuna