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Author Topic: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers  (Read 8814 times)

Blueprint

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14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« on: December 26, 2014, 12:11:22 PM »
So I've been playing around with some 14 lb equipment and I was looking at the pros and cons to decide if I wanted to stick with the 14s or switch back to 15s. I was comparing the core numbers and wondering if the differences that you see would create a big difference in reaction shape. For instance the 14 lb hyper cell core is 2.57 (RG) 0.046 (Diff) 0.015 (Mb) and the 15 lb hyper cell core is 2.52 (RG) 0.056 (Diff) 0.018 (Mb). It seems like the difference in the core numbers would create a difference in ball reaction. Please provide feedback on your thoughts. Thanks.

 

SVstar34

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2014, 01:34:36 PM »
I had a previous driller who had gone between 14,15, and 16 trying to figure out what worked best for him. He noticed in drilling the 14s that for the most part they have higher rg values which led to him needing to drill 14s a little stronger than he would 15s or use a stronger surface or balance hole to increase dynamics in the p3/4 locations

charlest

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2014, 01:43:43 PM »
I have had to use 14s for a while now. I have found that for many of the same 15s I had been using, the 14s have, in general, both higher RGs and lower DIfferentials. So, for the most part, I have had to both drill them stronger (shorter pin-PAP distances AND lower VAL angles) and I have had to use a notch rougher surfaces (4000 grit vs. 2000 grit+polish and maybe 2000 grit vs. 4000 grit).

The good part is I can throw 14s much faster than I could throw 15s. The bad part is my timing is too easily thrown off by the light weight of the 14s, as well as the weight of the 14 lb. ball not pulling off my thumb nearly as cleanly as the 15s do.

Of course, your reaction to the lighter ball could vary drastically from my or anyone else's experience.

I'd suggest doing some test drillings of a couple of used 14s (the same balls as the 15s you are throwing) to see how they are different and what you yourself need to adjust to while throwing them and how your driller needs to change the same ball in the lighter weight to get the ball reaction you need/want.
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JustRico

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2014, 01:47:56 PM »
Be more aware of the diff numbers as that what drives flare potential
RG numbers are 100/1000's of an inch...which is not a lot but from .045 to .055 is decent in flare
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Tex

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2014, 03:20:07 PM »
I had to switch to 14's due to shoulder surgery. I am now working on strength to get back up to 15's.  My average is down and carry not near as good with the 14's.  I am leaving a lot of single pin spares even on good hits. I have the 14 Hyper Cell and at 2000 it worked well at Nationals last year once we burned the track up some, but other than that not much to talk about. The same core is used in the 14, 15 & 16 in Roto Grip/ Storm from my understanding, they just make other adjustments in materials to reduce the weights which results in higher RG's. I plan on keeping the lighter balls once I can get back to rolling 15's full time just for long format tournaments and travel league where we do back to back sets. Timing has been another issue that I have struggled with since the surgery and have a feeling the pound less has some affect on that as well.

scotts33

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2014, 04:56:22 PM »
14's for 5 years now.  Ball speed is the main factor for me.  Made my revs and speed matched.  With 15's I was rev dominant not a good thing is this day an age.  I don't see any carry issues for myself.  Leave the same types of spares either way.  Less wear and tear, easier to keep speed up in longer blocks....just too many better factors to deride anything by using 15's for me.  I make ball choices always looking at 14 lb. Rg and diff. 
Scott

Blueprint

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2014, 08:03:54 AM »
Lately I've been using a lot of Storm equipment and I like how the 15 lb core numbers compliment each other. So going from 15s to 14s I wanted some of the same looks with the 14s. Well after doing some research I noticed some pretty big differences in some of their cores going from 15s to 14s that would make a difference if I were to use the same layouts that I have on my 15s. For example the punch out line, hy road line, and IQ line (not including the IQ Nano) all use the exact same cover (R2S) and they all depend on the core numbers to provide different shapes which seemed to work when using 15s. However with the changes made to the cores in the 14s it would seem to cause them to all react very similar. Which I know cover changes can create differences, but why spend money on a 14 lb ball in the IQ line, when I can purchase something from the Punch Out line and get a similar reaction.

Also I've started looking at the differences in other brands (core numbers) from 15s to 14s and the differences are smaller. If i decide to stick with 14s, I may start looking at a different brand to get the reaction shapes and differences that I like to see before cover adjustments.

scotts33

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2014, 08:34:28 AM »
Lately I've been using a lot of Storm equipment and I like how the 15 lb core numbers compliment each other. So going from 15s to 14s I wanted some of the same looks with the 14s. Well after doing some research I noticed some pretty big differences in some of their cores going from 15s to 14s that would make a difference if I were to use the same layouts that I have on my 15s. For example the punch out line, hy road line, and IQ line (not including the IQ Nano) all use the exact same cover (R2S) and they all depend on the core numbers to provide different shapes which seemed to work when using 15s. However with the changes made to the cores in the 14s it would seem to cause them to all react very similar. Which I know cover changes can create differences, but why spend money on a 14 lb ball in the IQ line, when I can purchase something from the Punch Out line and get a similar reaction.

Also I've started looking at the differences in other brands (core numbers) from 15s to 14s and the differences are smaller. If i decide to stick with 14s, I may start looking at a different brand to get the reaction shapes and differences that I like to see before cover adjustments.

Personally I use a lot of RotoGrip 14's and though slight RG differences the HP2 line Rumble, Uproar and Outcry are all the same total diff.

C300 14 tio 15 can vary by a lot and there I am careful in what I choose.  Then you get to lines like LM/LF and they don't even publish 14 lb. numbers so there you are a total shot in the dark.  It's just me but I think you are over thinking it. 
Scott

Blueprint

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2014, 11:46:56 AM »
Quote from: scotts33
Personally I use a lot of RotoGrip 14's and though slight RG differences the HP2 line Rumble, Uproar and Outcry are all the same total diff.

C300 14 tio 15 can vary by a lot and there I am careful in what I choose.  Then you get to lines like LM/LF and they don't even publish 14 lb. numbers so there you are a total shot in the dark.  It's just me but I think you are over thinking it. 

I agree, it seems like I'm over thinking things. However my posts are more me just wondering if what I'm seeing and thinking is correct. I've learned quite a bit of information by reading things, thinking about what I've read, and posting my thoughts to see what others had to say. I tend to gain more helpful information than what I was initially looking for. I like to bowl, but I also like to understand more than just throwing a ball down the lane. I like to try and understand what a ball should do before I even put holes in it. This also often helps me set my bag up and know what compliments what and also helps me make adjustments quicker without losing frames.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 11:55:16 AM by Blueprint »

scotts33

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2014, 01:51:55 PM »
Quote from: scotts33
Personally I use a lot of RotoGrip 14's and though slight RG differences the HP2 line Rumble, Uproar and Outcry are all the same total diff.

C300 14 tio 15 can vary by a lot and there I am careful in what I choose.  Then you get to lines like LM/LF and they don't even publish 14 lb. numbers so there you are a total shot in the dark.  It's just me but I think you are over thinking it. 

I agree, it seems like I'm over thinking things. However my posts are more me just wondering if what I'm seeing and thinking is correct. I've learned quite a bit of information by reading things, thinking about what I've read, and posting my thoughts to see what others had to say. I tend to gain more helpful information than what I was initially looking for. I like to bowl, but I also like to understand more than just throwing a ball down the lane. I like to try and understand what a ball should do before I even put holes in it. This also often helps me set my bag up and know what compliments what and also helps me make adjustments quicker without losing frames.

BTW....I more or less agree with the Hy-Road series between 14 and 15 almost .10 total diff. difference that quite a bit.  I more look at total diff. first and see if the Rg is close ie Rotogrip HP2 14 .030 in all 14, 15 and 16.  Rg is 2.55 in 15's and 2.60 in 14's not enough to worry about IMO.  BTW....NOT including Wrecker but the other 3.
Scott

Strider

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2014, 05:32:55 PM »
I think you need to figure out what weight ball is best for you, then move on.  If you're sticking with one weight, you'll only be comparing (hopefully cover first and) the RG/diff numbers of different balls, not weights.  If in general RG is a little higher and diff lower, that will be pretty much the same with all the balls you are comparing.

If you already have a 14# Hyper Cell (2.57, 0.046, 0.015) then you can look at the Disturbed (2.53, 0.042) and the Wrecker (2.60, 0.044) as complimentary balls.

For example I'll be bowling lefty at least for the summer.  I bought 14# because that's a better weight for my left hand.  If/when I add more equipment I'll find equipment that compliments what I already have at 14#, not wish a certain ball at 14# had the 15# specs.

TamerBowling

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2014, 07:50:25 PM »
I don't think you are overthinking it at all, IMO.  Depending on manufacturer, there could be rather large differences between 14 and 15 pound specs.
This an article I wrote as I recently switched myself from 15 to 14 due to a recurring bicep injury:
http://tamerbowling.com/bowlingball-14-vs-15-pound/

I have been testing this for 6 months now.  Here's an example.  When I threw a 15 Hy-Road, it was my favorite ball, period. 2.57 and .046 for 15 vs 2.58 and .037 for 14.  I'm actually surprised how different the ball reactions are with the same layout.  With the 14, I get very little midlane read and very little backend reaction.  With the 15, I had great midlane read and a boomy and strong backend.  They look nothing alike for me.  With the 14, it's the weakest in the arsenal as compared to the 15 which was just above middle.  That's a massive difference.

I don't think there is any ball in Storm/Roto lineup with less than 2.52 RG in 14 and that is unfortunate in my opinion. 
Now I'm experimenting with different balls and reactions.  You've got to consider that your speed may increase and your balance of speed to revs will change a little.  With that in mind, core specs are important and layouts are important.  Obviously surface is a given and like someone mentioned, you may use surface to "slow" the ball down and get it to read better.

My biggest struggle with the switch is I have a hard time getting my equipment to get into a roll.  I used to be able to use large angle sums.  Now, I need to drop them down to 90. 


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scotts33

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2014, 07:57:41 PM »
Also add in the factor of left side vs. right side and your lane condition/topography.  I see as a righty different ball motions than a lefty would see. 
Scott

Blueprint

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2014, 07:59:54 PM »
I think you need to figure out what weight ball is best for you, then move on.  If you're sticking with one weight, you'll only be comparing (hopefully cover first and) the RG/diff numbers of different balls, not weights.  If in general RG is a little higher and diff lower, that will be pretty much the same with all the balls you are comparing.

If you already have a 14# Hyper Cell (2.57, 0.046, 0.015) then you can look at the Disturbed (2.53, 0.042) and the Wrecker (2.60, 0.044) as complimentary balls.

For example I'll be bowling lefty at least for the summer.  I bought 14# because that's a better weight for my left hand.  If/when I add more equipment I'll find equipment that compliments what I already have at 14#, not wish a certain ball at 14# had the 15# specs.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm by no means wishing for 14s to be the same as 15s. My original post was basically saying that the 14 lb hyper cell won't be the same as the 15 lb hyper cell. I never said I had a 14 lb hyper cell, I was just using that core as an example. As far as what I'm currently throwing in 14s, I have a punch out, iq fusion, and iq nano. All were drilled to compliment each other.

JustRico

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Re: 14 lb vs 15 lb core numbers
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2014, 08:05:55 PM »
Generally biggest factor one encounters in changing weights is ball speed...a minimal increase effects reaction and generally not taken into account...yes flare potential is a factor but 1 mph increase can be a high flush 4 pin to a 2 pin...
Pay attention to diff numbers...if you're using a 5" pin and the diff lowers by .010 then shift the pin 1/4-1/2" to accommodate in flare but do not be afraid to adjust the surface...1000 grit in change can be huge
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