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Author Topic: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish  (Read 30184 times)

BruceKaratz

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1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« on: March 27, 2011, 12:06:59 PM »
If you have the same exact ball and you take it to 1500 abralon or 1500 grit polish, will the ball hook the same amount of board but the 1500 abralon will start its hook motion earlier, or will the balls have a different amount of overall hook as well?
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charlest

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 06:40:52 AM »
In general, the sanded ball will hook more and earlier, while the polished will hook a lot more in the backend.
 
But you also have to take into account there are 3 general types of bowling ball polish.
Lanemasters Factory Finish High Gloss and Powerhouses Factory Finish. It doesnot affect the underlying grit. It stays at 1500 grit.
 
1. The non-abrasive kind like Valentino's Snake Oil, Lanemasters Factory Finish, and Powerhouse's Factory Finish. They do not change the underlying grit level, leaving it at 1500 grit. These will add length and increase the backend on resin balls. This type of shine is probably the closest in overall hook to the sanded ball, with more length and more backend.
 
2. The abrasive kind, like Brunswick's Factory Finish and Rough Buff, Storm's Reacta Shine and Xtra Shine. Once applied the underlying grit is no longer 1500 grit. The grit in the polish smooths it to a high numerical grit number but how much is an unknown. The results is based on how much is applied, how hard the user presses and for how long it spins. This type of shine gives probably a ball whose overall hook is slightly less than the sanded ball slowly because the grit level is finer (a higher numerical value).
 
3.  The slip agent type of polish. This adds a chemical that reduces the amount of oil absorption, as well as shining up the ball. It reduces not only the amount of hook but also the amount of backend, making the ball less aggressive overall and able to be used on much lighter oil than than that for which the ball was intended. Examples are Powerhouse's Delayed Reaction, Valentino's UFO, and Brunswick/Neo-Tac's Control-It.
 


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"Some bowlers are crazy as pickled cats."
 
 
Edited by charlest on 3/28/2011 at 5:00 PM
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Russell

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 06:47:23 AM »
It's yet another thing that we horribly overstate and put too much emphasis on....

 

Let's ask ourselves....1500 grit vs. 1500 grit....how much difference can their really be?  Is it BETTER if one hooks MORE?  If one does hook more, is it realistically going to be more than a board or two?

 

I'm asking these questions because I ask my junior bowlers the same things when they come in with over analytical questions.  A few of them are beyond obsessed with the micro-technical part of the game.  They focus so much on it that they forget to bowl and score horribly.  I would be willing to bet that the best bowlers on tour don't throw fits over whether the ball is 1500 polish vs. abralon.  They just say "scuff it a little....like 1500 or so"...and do the rest with ball speed.


Little known fact:  In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
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charlest

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 11:22:24 AM »
What are you going to do?
He asked; so I gave my 2 cents.
 
But small differences in surfaces are more significant to slower speed bowlers.
Faster speed bowlers rarely deal with polish in any case. 
 
If you can throw a ball from 14 mph to 20 mph, then yes, such difference can mean nothing to you.
If you can't do that, then they mean something.


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"Some bowlers are crazy as pickled cats."
 
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charlest

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 11:22:52 AM »
What are you going to do?
He asked; so I gave my 2 cents.
 
But small differences in surfaces are more significant to slower speed bowlers.
Faster speed bowlers rarely deal with polish in any case. 
 
If you can throw a ball anywhere rom 14 mph to 20 mph, then yes, such differences can mean nothing to you.
If you can't do that, then they mean something.


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"Some bowlers are crazy as pickled cats."
 
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Russell

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 01:40:40 PM »
charles that wasn't an attack at you....just my answer.  I think we overthink balls on the lanes...even for slow speed bowlers.  That was my point...more of a "what difference does it make" observation.  They make a 1000 and a 2000 abralon pad.  How many bowlers HONESTLY need a grit between those?  Of those how many need a different 1500 grit?.....


Little known fact:  In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
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charlest

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 02:36:34 PM »
No problem - I realized it wasn't an attack, But it is a valid concern that several have expressed before. People who have the ability to change speeds or those who have a higher natural ball speed often do not realize the concerns and problems of those who don't. I was just explaining a point of view of those of us who are speed challenged.
 
I agree with you about grit levels.
The finer degrees of grit levels  are often overused or have been given too much importance.
Maybe most of us who can do speed and/or hand changes need only 1500 grit and maybe 4000 grit,
Maybe 1000, 2000 and 4000 WITH or WITHOUT polish ().
 
Too many options confuse the issue of bowling - use what you have learned with your hand, feet and body. Manipulate surfaces when they fail.
Russell wrote on 3/28/2011 1:40 PM:
charles that wasn't an attack at you....just my answer.  I think we overthink balls on the lanes...even for slow speed bowlers.  That was my point...more of a "what difference does it make" observation.  They make a 1000 and a 2000 abralon pad.  How many bowlers HONESTLY need a grit between those?  Of those how many need a different 1500 grit?.....


Little known fact:  In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"Some bowlers are crazy as pickled cats."
 
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BruceKaratz

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 04:47:05 PM »
Your first reply was great.  I'm trying to fine tune my balls, so this works. 
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BruceKaratz

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 02:58:40 PM »
Charlest:  do you think professional bowlers use the slip agent on their balls?  It seems like something you could use to make a heavy oil ball work on lighter patterns. 
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charlest

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 04:27:54 PM »
I don't know. I think not, as they usually either have lots of choices in ball selection or they have the ability to use stronger balls and loft the gutter. PLUS they have the most skilled drillers who can often allow them to use stronger surfaced balls and reduce the strength of the core. PLUS it is rare when players of this caliber cannot throw the ball as fast as they need to throw it.
 
I'm talking PBA touring pros. Regional players may use it on occasion.
 
BruceKaratz wrote on 3/29/2011 2:58 PM:Charlest:  do you think professional bowlers use the slip agent on their balls?  It seems like something you could use to make a heavy oil ball work on lighter patterns. 


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"Some bowlers are crazy as pickled cats."
 
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jls

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 06:50:52 PM »
I agree with Charlest post...

 

However I have never seen a 1500 Abralon pad...

 

But simply put, something dull will alway start up earlier and have less back end than something polished...

 

And a ball at a 2000 abralon pad will certainly start up way earlier than something polished at 1500...


jls
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charlest

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2011, 07:20:09 PM »
Siaair - same difference. It's a P1500 grit abrasive.
Or use a P1500 grit piece of sandpaper.
jls wrote on 3/30/2011 6:50 PM:
I agree with Charlest post...

 

However I have never seen a 1500 Abralon pad...

 

But simply put, something dull will alway start up earlier and have less back end than something polished...

 

And a ball at a 2000 abralon pad will certainly start up way earlier than something polished at 1500...


jls


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"Some bowlers are crazy as pickled cats."
 
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

jls

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Re: 1500 abralon vs. 1500 grit polish
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 08:52:43 AM »

 Yes I know,,, we have other brands that come in 1500 grit...
 
But not abralon..
 
However they now do come in 3000 grit...
charlest wrote on 3/30/2011 7:20 PM:
Siaair - same difference. It's a P1500 grit abrasive.
Or use a P1500 grit piece of sandpaper.
jls wrote on 3/30/2011 6:50 PM:
I agree with Charlest post...

 

However I have never seen a 1500 Abralon pad...

 

But simply put, something dull will alway start up earlier and have less back end than something polished...

 

And a ball at a 2000 abralon pad will certainly start up way earlier than something polished at 1500...


jls


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"Some bowlers are crazy as pickled cats."
 


jls
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