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Author Topic: A BrunsNick response...  (Read 13042 times)

BrunsNick

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A BrunsNick response...
« on: August 01, 2007, 06:33:05 PM »
In light of the recent topics, I have decided to provide a clean slate for a new discussion. The pointless jabbing and having my name called out was expected, and more often than not, comical.

First and foremost, the testing that Paul at USBC has performed is a great step in the right direction. He is a brilliant person to talk with, and an all around good guy. His information is without alterior motivation, never deviating from delivering pure and raw data to the general public. With that being said, the reason Paul, Brunswick, Lane #1 and myself used test balls with a radical variance in CG placement is to show the absolute maximum amount of difference in reaction.

Onward.

With the USBC test, two balls were used with over 2 1/2oz difference in sideweight, thrown by Harry, the robotic wonder. (thrown on a 53' flat pattern 17mph with 375RPMS) This would be considered a "Rev-Dominant" player. Now in this controlled experiment, Harry was able to find about a foot difference in actual breakpoint, with 4 feet of difference between the skid/roll phase. Along with that data, 2 boards of backend hook was found.

So what does this mean to me?

1. Roll does not equal hook.

A ball transitioning from skid to roll does not mean the ball is starting its hook phase. Chitown, you have outlandishly called me out in your thread (now deleted for whatever reason) without regard for the countless times in the past you have messaged me looking for information, layout help, etc. You have absolutely no merit, no first-hand knowledge and only know what you are spoon fed. You were quick to point out how 4 feet was such a gigantic and huge finding, yet, you don't quite understand what you're saying.

2. Two boards is not as much as it sounds over the course of 60 feet.

If you're using Harry set to 17mph/375rpm, who always repeats shots perfectly, using two rough bowling balls with over 2 1/2oz difference in side weight, 53' pattern in a controlled environment test and you only see 2 boards of difference, then how do you apply that to the human game with USBC specification? You can't, you can only theorize. I can give my own opinion on the results of another test, this time using more plausible CG placements in the current game. (i.e. - CG in palm vs CG "kicked" to give 3/4oz pos) USBC will post more findings, taking this into account.

3. Core orientation is not affected.

Notice the post-drilling numbers of the two balls. (nobody has yet to mention this) Not much of any measurable difference even with the radical swing in layouts. Maybe there would be absolutely zero difference if the two fingerholes were drilled to equal depth, but once again, I am just theorizing.

To sum it up, does the CG matter?

Mathematically? Yes, Paul's data shows that.

Realistically? Not by any human. One would be better suited applying this overanalytical attitude to the mechanics and execution in their bowling game. CGNOMADDAH is a theory, and apparently, is one that makes sense to quite a few people. My CGNOMADDAH video has sparked the curiousity of our governing body, and that by itself is exciting! This will not be the end of CG testing, as confirmed by the USBC. I also intend to make an additional video on the subject, with different variables in place. Basically, the best anyone can do is make a decision based on their first hand experiences, and the information presented to them.

Thanks for reading.

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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-07
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.AskTheBowler.com
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Friends don't let friends drink the Kool-Aid!


Edited on 8/2/2007 2:37 AM
Nick Smith
Digital Media Manager - Brunswick Bowling
http://www.brunswickbowling.com
http://www.youtube.com/c/brunsnick

 

laneman

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Re: A BrunsNick response...
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2007, 10:04:02 AM »
He also worked with Columbia designing the "vector" series,trust me,he knows about bowling balls.
If you would like to find out what his part is designing bowling balls feel free to call him at Stonehenge Family Fun center in Akron,Ohio

RevZiLLa

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Re: A BrunsNick response...
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2007, 10:20:50 AM »
It doesn't matter a ton. It doesn't matter zero either. Personally, I rely more on practice, a good fit, and surface prep

quote:
Why does all this matter anyway?

Drill the ball the way you like it, get the SURFACE dialed in and go win the big bucks !!! You're all making this WAY to complicated.


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Righty
Speed: 17.0 (Quibica)
Revs: med-high to high
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Steven

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Re: A BrunsNick response...
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2007, 10:54:12 AM »
At this point, I really don't care where folks fall on CG. However, what I would like to get is a consistent message from the manufacturers. Brunswick has put their toe in this cesspool, so I'll go there.

When the USBC results came out, Brunsric's response was the following:

 
quote:
Secondly, they tested 2 Columbia balls. They did not test 2 Brunswick bowling balls or Ebonite or any other company for that matter. Therefore, how can you state anything more than the CG apparently matters in Columbia bowling balls, nothing else. All companies manufacture bowling balls differently, including infrastructure.

It is a valid test in reference to Columbia balls and really nothing else.
 


His statement was a nice clean response to reconcile a solid USBC conclusion that goes directly against Brunswick's position.

But if you go back to the Brunswick video regarding the proposed (and now aborted) 1” CG-distance rule, Brunswick stated the following:

 
quote:
Brunswick believes that this presentation demonstrates and explains why there is little or no change to ball reaction, hook potential or angularity when the CG is placed at different locations on the surface of the ball, and that the proposed 1” CG-distance rule will result in no significant change to the scoring environment, and therefore have little or no effect on any objective measurement of credibility or integrity in our sport.


Brunswick was implicitly talking on behalf all manufacturers when making their case that CGNOMADDAH. There was never any disclaimer that their presentation pertained to "Brunswick balls only".

So Brunswick was apparently trying to talk on behalf of bowling industry when they pronounced CGNOMADDAH, even though their test was only with Brunswick balls.

But Brunsric says the USBC conclusion that CGMADDAH only counts for Columbia balls, because that's all they tested.

It doesn't make sense.....
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"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"

laneman

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Re: A BrunsNick response...
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2007, 11:05:11 AM »
quote:
If I turst you then I will trust you know him.  Therefore I will give you the benefit of the doubt.  An internet debate is not worth calling a bowling legend over.

I stand by my word, I apologize.

quote:
He also worked with Columbia designing the "vector" series,trust me,he knows about bowling balls.
If you would like to find out what his part is designing bowling balls feel free to call him at Stonehenge Family Fun center in Akron,Ohio



NP

Just thought he was a good example to use.

Rileybowler

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Re: A BrunsNick response...
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2007, 11:24:42 AM »
Ray I know this is off topic but you talk about all of these house hacks not knowing how their equipment is drilled and how you know all about drillings and soforth and yet your average is only 197 how come? I don't say this to put you down but the fact of the matter is you don't have to know drillings to be a good bowler, in fact each ball comes with a drill sheet to tell you how to drill and for what condition
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Carl
Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name