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Author Topic: A topic about golf that applies to bowling too!  (Read 1817 times)

mumzie

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A topic about golf that applies to bowling too!
« on: September 02, 2003, 02:45:34 AM »
I was thinking about Hamster's "Analysis Paralysis" in another thread - overthinking everything in his armswing... We've all done it at one time or another. I saw this post today on another message board - can someone come up with the equivalent about bowling???

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Golf is such an Easy Game: Everyone can learn to play golf.

Once a player has mastered the grip and stance, all he has
to bear in mind, in the brief two-second interval it takes to
swing, is to keep his left elbow pointed in toward the left
hip and his right arm loose and closer to the body than the
left----and take the clubhead past his right knee---and then
break the wrists at just the right instant while the left arm
is still traveling straight back from the ball and the right arm
stays glued to the body---and the hips come around in a perfect
circle---and meanwhile everything is mucked up unless the weight
is 60 percent on the left foot and 40 percent on the right---not
an ounce more or less---and at just the right point in the turn the
left knee bends in toward the right in a dragging motion until the
left heel comes off the ground---but not too far---and be sure
the hands are over the right foot---but not on the toe more than
the heel---except that the left side of the right foot is tilted off
the ground---but not too far---and be sure the hands at the top
of the swing are high and the shaft points along a line parallel with
the ground---and if its a downhill lie the shaft is supposed to be
pointed downhill too---and pause at the top of the swing and count
one, jerk the left arm straight down like a bell ringer yanking a
belfry rope---and don't uncock the wrists too soon and pull the left
hip around in a circle---but don't let the shoulders turn with the
hips, they have to be facing the hole---and now transfer the weight
60 percent to the left foot and 40 percent to the right---not an
ounce more or less---and tilt the left foot now so the right side of
it is straight---that's the one you hit against---watch out for the
left hand, it's supposed to be extended---but not too stiff or the
shot won't go anywhere---and don't let it get loose or you will
hook---and let the wrists uncock---but don't force them or you'll
smother the shot---and don't break too soon but keep your head
down---then hit the ball!

THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT!!
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mumzie

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Re: A topic about golf that applies to bowling too!
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2003, 12:23:57 PM »
Bones - once again, I disagree.
I've tried to do this with bowling before - I'll have to see if I can find the 2 pages of handwritten notes.
Things like - make sure the ball swings approximately one inch to the right of the left ankle, while the left knee is bent, and the bowler is sliding from 5 to 15 inches  blah, blah, blah...

If I get time (fat chance), I'll try to work one up...


Edited on 9/3/2003 12:33 PM
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LuckyLefty

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Re: A topic about golf that applies to bowling too!
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2003, 05:10:56 PM »
Hey, I saw this post a while back and I wanted to actually put the thoughts of someone who has been hitting the ball great for 30 years with no confusion, and no misunderstanding of what caused a bad hit actually thinks about.

Note, over the past 15 years I have maybe played 45 rounds.

Usually my first round in a year is low 80s, 2nd round could be par or close to it on fairly straightforward courses of about 6500 yards.

Have some scoring records in my prime I would rather not get into but some fun things were accomplished.
The shot detailed below is my standard draw.  (I only have one other intended shot power fade).

1.  Take a good grip, at least 2 knuckles of the lead hand showing if not 3.
Place right hand parallel to it.  Vardon interlock or baseball grip will do.
2.  Make sure in setup right elbow is slightly lower than left!  This is so important and without it, has led to a confusing golf career for even the pros.
A club above right elbow and under left pointing parallel to target shows this important position.
3. Make a backswing by moving the arms back while maintaining right elbow under left and move the body back as MUCH to the right as possible while keeping the right foot flat on the ground and the right knee flexed in its original starting position.  Also hold the head up and let the chin rotate so that it is pointing behind the ball.
4.  Start the first foot of the the downswing by moving the knees back to the left as smoothly as possible and at the same time let the arms go so relaxed they almost just fall for one foot!  (called the magic move by Harvey Penick),
I call it the Slot move!
5.  From this position fire!  Absolutely as hard as you want!  You are in the slot.
6.  To make sure you stay in the slot for the draw, make sure your head does not burst threw the starting position and that you make sure that the chin is pointing one inch behind the ball and is not rotating further until the ball is gone.  (Tiger Woods does this better than anyone now).  For the fade make sure the chin is pointing one inch in front of the ball and is still while the ball is being hit.

That's it!

Actual thoughts when swinging are only TWO!  As grip, elbow position and stance are taken before moving and moving back on the downswing is now a practiced habit!
1. Let the club fall for the first 8 inches to foot of the downswing!
2. For a draw let the chin return to pointing one inch behind the ball on downswing and then hold in that position till the ball is gone!

Here is a list of crap that is unnecessary and not related at all.
1. Keep your head down.
2. Don't move off the ball.
3. Keep your left arm straight.
4. Have your club point parallel to the target at the top of the backswing.
5. Swing slow.
6. You swung too hard(no you never got in the slot).

Analysis of bad shots.
Did everything I said above and the ball did not draw back to the hole!
1. Did you really do everything I said!
2. Your grip is too weak, add 1/2 knuckle!
3. Your lead elbow is too locked and must be slightly softened if you have strengthened grip to 3 knuckles, kept chin back of ball at impact, and still slice!  A softer elbow allows more rotation to happen naturally!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS the swing of the head and position at impact is every bit as important as the swing of the club!


Edited on 9/6/2003 5:26 PM
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: A topic about golf that applies to bowling too!
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2003, 08:18:15 AM »
The method above combines the absolute maximum of BOTH power AND accuracy!
Not only that this method is easy to teach and learn if the player has not already developed bad habits.

All other methods by players you listed are substandard methods made workable by superior athletes, actually not achieving their physical potential but enough to beat others!

Being not a superior athlete, (or putter as Arnold Palmer in his prime was the best ever).  I decided to go for the best method.

Dick Lotz a really great pro in describing physical phenomenon wrote an article in the 70s in golf digest called "Mutual exclusives".  It basically explained that if one stood very tall when putting to putt well one could not take the putter back straight back and straight thru.  One must instead putt like Ben Crenshaw (or some player ofthe time). Inside to inside.

Many other relationships were discussed.  The bottom line is that "two wrongs" make a right in golf!  All swings discussed above have an initial wrong that is corrected by one compensation.

All 3 of the players above Barber, Palmer, and Furyk had variations of not allowing their forearms to rotate naturally on the backswing.  Thus they arrived at the top of the swing with the face shut!  To hit straight each would then block or not fully release the club thus slightly reducing distance.  
Two wrongs make a right!

Furyk has recently reduced his block and picked up about 30 yards!


REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Re: A topic about golf that applies to bowling too!
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2003, 08:36:16 AM »
Just to carry this a bit farther forward.

I admire all the champions listed above and also attribute a tremendous element to their champions status as strength of character!

To list some other famous blockers of the golf ball we also have Lee Trevino, David Duval(or he was when #1), and Paul Azinger.

The best example of the free release swing I detailed above is Tom Watson who for the past 5 to 10 years has probably swung the club the best in the world.
He generates a tremendous amount of distance and accuracy for a man who claims to be 5'9".  Another incredible swinger of the club was Payne Stewart, and also one of my personal favorites has always been Ian Woosnam.
Complete unbridled power and accuracy combined.  Can a golf ball consistently be hit over 300 yards by a man only 5' 4"!?

Before that the best swingers obviously Bobby Jones(with the adjustments for the whippy wood shafts), and Sam Snead!  What power what accuracy!!!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

SrKegler

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Re: A topic about golf that applies to bowling too!
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2003, 12:17:17 PM »
Do you think power can be taught or are we all limited by our physical makeup and then have to rely on accuracy and smarts in order to compete?  Bones[/quote]

Finally found out my problem in bowling.  No speed, No accuracy, No smarts!!  Thanks Bones
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~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel
Have Balls - Will Travel


RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones

LuckyLefty

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Re: A topic about golf that applies to bowling too!
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2003, 10:06:54 AM »
I am a believer that power in golf can be taught!

Tougher in bowling!

Great pictures in this month's Golf Magazine.

Jonathan Byrd 5' 8 inches tall weight 155 averaging 296 yards off the tee!

Great positions.  Chin at ball or slightly in front implies a full releasing power fader!

Page 64 teaching pro Wayne DeFreancesco in bottom picture shows proper "chin behind position" for a draw.  as Tatoo from fantasy Island used to say, it's De Chin it's de Chin!" Where does it point? Where does it point!?

Power, Tom Kite, Good swing?  Hmmmm!???

Tom Kite has phased in and out over his career with bouncing the club out of his cocked position at the top.  In other words he looses a little wrist cock at the top.

Long hitters on the other hand.  Keep wrist cock the same or increase it on the way down.  (see soft arms above).  

When he is bouncing it out, he tends to hit the ball and the ground at the same time and hits an almost bunt type of shot that has very little sidespin.

Then he'll go into a phase when he retains his wrist cock at the top and hits it very long for a fairly small and not very coordinated man that he is!

When he won at Pebble Beach one year and shot 62(not the US Open) he was hitting so long they couldn't believe it.  When he won two weeks ago on the senior tour it was impressive how long he was hitting it.

I've always been a great admirer of Fuzzy Zoeller's ability to hit it long.
He shows exactly how to hit it very long with effort only at the correct point in the swing, AFTER the first foot down in the downswing.  If one starts HARD earlier than this they get Tom Kite's hit yourself on the back follow thru.

When Fuzzy hits it big (all the time) he only gets thru to a follow thru that is much different than Tom Kite's.  When Tom Kite is hitting it longer he DOES NOT hit himself in the back.

I've often felt that this shorter follow thru look of a Fuzzy Zoeller is the look of the long effortless hitter!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS make no mistake about it!  I admire Tom Kite greatly.  I actually believe that no one has ever done more in golf with less physical talent!  He is truly a champion!  More due to mind and a great short game than anything.
PPS I remember one time watching Tom Kite before a tournament and he was hitting next to Andy Bean in his prime, and Jerry Pate.
Kite's ball(he was releasing from the top that week), sounded like this "Phut!"
He was hitting 3 woods about 215 in the air.  Andy Bean's sounded like this, "CRACK, fwwwwwwwwwpppp like it was burning the air!
I said to a friend.  "Kite is toast this week, Bean is an animal hitting that 3 wood about 265 in the air".
Kite came in 2nd,"phutting his little bounce 4 wood all around the course, Bean missed the cut!


It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana