Author Topic: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble.... (Read 7631 times)

FBM357 · « **on:** March 12, 2007, 03:24:59 AM »

So very depressing... I'm sure this topic has been beaten silly, but it hits when you actually become a witness to the sadness.

In a league, many of the bowlers were complaining the shot was too easy. Many were tired of bowling 250+ and not winning any money (i.e. pots, brackets etc.) So, the owner changed the oil pattern to something quite challenging. Now that the shot has changed, many are still complaining that it's too difficult and have already threatened to quit. With that in mind, the owner will more than likely dissolve the league at the end of the season and fill the spot with OPEN BOWLING.

I already know of another center who after this season will close leagues on Friday and Saturdays because it generates more money from open bowling, parties etc.

How can this (if any way possible) be corrected? sure you introduce PBA Experience leagues, but the average 'house-hacks' aren't interested in participating. With this in mind, how can a 'house-hack' justify his discontent with tougher/challenging conditions, yet spend his money participating in a tournament (i.e. Nationals, Hoinke, etc.) where not only the shot, but the competition can be just as challenging? Logic seems a bit fuzzy.

What sayeth you?
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Proud member of the Track Revolution - EMERITUS & Hitman

"Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open!"

J_Mac · « **Reply #31 on:** March 12, 2007, 09:33:12 PM »

quote:

Some would say that a tougher overall shot will discourage bowlers. But I think it would bring a certain credibility back to bowling. Honestly, how many honor score awards does an average league give out in a season now, compared to as little as 10 years ago? I can remember 10 years ago, my Tuesday night mens league (14 5-man teams = 70 bowlers x 3 games/wk x 32 wks = 6720 games)gave out ONE honor score award. ONE! Nowadays, I see people who are disappointed they didn't get a 300 or 800 ring themselves in a season, when 10 yrs ago it was an accomplishment for 1 person in the entire league to get one.

Hmm... 10 years ago you say? That sounds like the house I bowl at currently. Fewer than 5 800's a year and maybe a couple 300's a month. It's a 40 lane house that has league every night of the week.

Why do I bowl here? Simply because I know the shot and carry will make me a better bowler on more difficult lane conditions. You could probably take me to most houses and I'd average pretty much the same on a "tough" shot. Put me in another house with a pie shot and my average increases 10-15 pins easily.

Open bowling? Yeah, they've got that. They also do pretty good business drawing in the "recreational" bowler with 15 week unsanctioned Trio leagues. You've got to start somewhere...
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"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Eddie M · « **Reply #32 on:** March 12, 2007, 09:45:00 PM »

quote:
Fewer than 5 800's a year and maybe a couple 300's a month. It's a 40 lane house that has league every night of the week.

Well 30 vs 1 isn't exactly close. I find it funny that 30 honor scores in a house is considered a low number.

J_Mac · « **Reply #33 on:** March 12, 2007, 10:03:29 PM »

quote:
quote:
Fewer than 5 800's a year and maybe a couple 300's a month. It's a 40 lane house that has league every night of the week.

Well 30 vs 1 isn't exactly close. I find it funny that 30 honor scores in a house is considered a low number.

It is compared to almost every house in this area... and probably as close as you can get to your "good ol' days" of 10 years past.

I highly doubt that there are more than 15 300's annually there(after all, it was just a guesstimate), but what's the use of arguing with you? Feel free to learn from the past, just don't live there...
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"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Eddie M · « **Reply #34 on:** March 12, 2007, 10:26:43 PM »

I am not arguing, just pointing out that perhaps if centers weren't so eager to lay out the easiest possible shots, maybe bowling would regain some of the respect it has lost over the years. In a game where the max score is static, you can't allow the average score continue to rise. Eventually there will be nowhere else to go.

toomanytenpins · « **Reply #35 on:** March 12, 2007, 11:09:03 PM »

my friday night league is either really tough or we are jusr dislexic. The highest avg in the league is 182 and he is probaly 2teens most places. I am low 160 there and 190 most other places. I cant even begin to describe what is out there. At best guess its a reverse block or maybe its just a worn down 2 day old no shot that spits out high po balls like a change machine does wrinkled dollar bills. Its an older persons league for the most part ,but on any given night i can promise there will not be 3 scratch 200 games. We havent had an honor score in 6 years. I have the season high series with 646.
Yes I am mad as hell ,but dont have a clue what to do about it. I havent shot over 500 in 3 months. The kicker is noone else has either. And its not just my night ,from what i hear its every night.And what are we doing ,griping complaning and threatening to quit. I go in there every week and say I am goping to figure it out tonight,and every week its the bowling alley 3 me none.I have tried everything from my battle to me power groove. I have played every line i know with every hand and release i can imagine. My best games have been in the 180 range and there has only been 3 of those. Instead of us reveling in the challenge and looking forward to the thrill of possibly shooting 250 on this garbage shots ,we flock to the birthday parties where there is an endless supply of cake where everyone is shooting 250 and it takes 280 to cash.
So what does it mean. I am a 190 bowler on cake and a 160 on tough shots,shouldnt i be flocking to the hard shots and letting my game grow so that when i see cake i will shoot 280.House cats are spoiled premodonnas.Sure they will shoot 12 300s in a year ,but how well do they shoot on the usbc pattern . Sure you shot 800 on the shot with the rebound board at 10 ,but what will you shoot on the mud middled 50 foot flood 10 to the gutter. Or will you even try. Or will you just take your balls and go home. Did you even bring your balls? If you are carrying your balls take em and find that shot that noone can hit leave your back yard and go into the frozen tundra.I just might learn how to bowl and not just score.

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my style, the art of bowling without bowling

JPL of VT · « **Reply #36 on:** March 13, 2007, 10:16:02 AM »

There are so many reasons stated here that are valid and each in their own way have contributed to bowlings decline over the past 20 years. I feel speaking on my observations in my house, that the start of bowlings decline in the early 90's is a result of several factors.
1. The length of bowling season, this has always been a major complaint with bowlers. We have slowly let leagues reduce from 35 weeks to approx 32 to 33 weeks. Basically start after labor day and end at the end of April, though I know some bowlers would like to see leagues get down to about 26 to 28 weeks, but in my area that would financial suicide as we don't have a large population base to support us.

2. Changes in lifestyles (especially for women). Yes women have worked forever, but now more than ever, back in the 70's & 80's women weren't working to the large degree as they do today. Where bowling was a great nite out for stay at home mom's, a stay at home mom today is few and far between. Many women today have their babies and are right back out to the work place weeks later. My women's leagues today are virtually senior citizens leagues. Peoples work hours seem to have had an impact also. Years ago a major employer started 12 hour work days, soon other employers also adopted this and this contributed to another loss in bowlers.

3. More activities for youth, soccor, lacross, these activities didn't exist here till recently, as well as other sports and activities, both boys and girls, more activities that take youth away from trying bowling(we don't have school sponsored bowling programs, few in this state do). So there just isn't the new blood available to replace the aging bowlers who are dropping out.

4. I know this problem has existed forever, the High average bowlers, who do nothing but whine about spotting lesser bowlers pins, especially newer bowlers just getting started, instead of trying to help and encourage newer bowlers, these pin heads make the newer bowler feel unwanted and thus drop out of bowling after a short time. No proprietor likes to lose customers, but some customers are pure poison and the sooner you get them out of the building the better off everyone is. And with the explosion of ego-maniacal house hacks due to todays inflated scoring conditions and bowling dinosaurs who don't have the patience to reach out to new bowlers and teach them the etiquettes of bowling in a manner which is not condescending or nasty, no matter what their skill level is, this problem maybe more prevalent now than it was years ago.

Anyways these are simply my observations from my area and from reading comments posted from other bowlers

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #37 on:** March 13, 2007, 10:32:57 AM »

quote:
Find a way to harness the spending power of the recreational crowd and turn them into either league bowlers or bowlers who bowl more often and you have a powerful tool to expand bowling beyond our wildest dreams.

IMHO much truth here. When I look at my club, we either are lucky to "create" new bowlers through a very good youth work, growing the local potential through training and support, or thorugh those open bowlers who get attracted enough to buy a ball and play more frequently, hopefully joining a club or open league. But there is that vast gap between the recreational bowlers and "serious" club bowlers who play official league and tournaments.

How this gap can be closed (open league offers for anyone?), I am uncertain. Personally, I would not take part in something like this anymore, and I guess it is V .v. from the social bowlers' side who are simply afraid to play among 150+ average bowlers.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
"Put some make-up on your face - Make this world a better place!"
Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'

Fluff E Bunnie · « **Reply #38 on:** March 13, 2007, 12:37:08 PM »

quote:

4. I know this problem has existed forever, the High average bowlers, who do nothing but whine about spotting lesser bowlers pins, especially newer bowlers just getting started, instead of trying to help and encourage newer bowlers, these pin heads make the newer bowler feel unwanted and thus drop out of bowling after a short time. No proprietor likes to lose customers, but some customers are pure poison and the sooner you get them out of the building the better off everyone is. And with the explosion of ego-maniacal house hacks due to todays inflated scoring conditions and bowling dinosaurs who don't have the patience to reach out to new bowlers and teach them the etiquettes of bowling in a manner which is not condescending or nasty, no matter what their skill level is, this problem maybe more prevalent now than it was years ago.

I am glad you mentioned this.

I am definitely not bowling in my league after this year due to the attitudes of the other people. What's sad is that the highest average bowlers in the place are the worst ones to be around.

As newcomers, my team has really experienced nothing but dirty looks and complaining from everyone except for a couple nice older bowlers. We all came in never having bowled on that volume of oil before and naturally our scores were in the tank for a long time until we finally started to develop a strategy for it. Now I get the not-so-subtle hints about my average. I mean I am slowly dragging my sanctioned average up to what it should be, but it is going to take some time. Next year should be a lot better once the yearbook goes away.

As far as bowling etiquette, I feel the bowling centers need to do more to post the "etiquette" rules of bowling. It needs to be integrated into the screens that people are looking at.

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In remembrance of Clean N' Dull and Power Wash. You are not forgotten.

myrddin97 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 13, 2007, 03:11:03 PM »

When dealing with a 30+ week grind of league, one solution would be to have regularly scheduled nights off. In my Wed night league, we have a roster of 6 for a 5 man team. Most of the time, we just take turns on who's going to get the week off or if somebody has plans for whatever reason, they get the night off. That way, don't necessarily have to scrap for subs to make our linup legal.

jls · « **Reply #40 on:** March 13, 2007, 03:18:30 PM »

saw a 16 team classic league with 47 bowlers over 215 go down the tubes.

they also thought the shot was too easy. and when it was changed.
i believe only 4-5 over 200. needless to say. most quit after that season.

when bowlers can't score they quit, unlike golfers who go and play the back tees, yet can barely hit it past the front tees. they don't quit, they just don't always count their strokes. so at the end of the day, they still broke 85. can't do that in bowling with those auto - scorers.

golf courses are booming, and golfers keep their own scores. maybe bowling,
na bad idea.
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jls31316

a_ak57 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 13, 2007, 03:32:20 PM »

If difficulty if what attracts people to a sport- for those of you saying that making bowling more difficult would gain respect and get people interested- then why aren't all golf courses set up like Augusta or Medina? In fact, most courses are easy and have lots of chances to score a birdie or whatever.

If difficulty made people excited, basketball would see dunks and shots in the box banned, and beyond the arc would be one point, and half court and farther would be where people wanted to shoot. Baseball players would be given popsicle sticks, and the ball would be thrown by machines that can go up to 150mph with massive curves. But why not? Because difficulty doesn't get people intrested, non-repetitive action with quick results does. That's why soccer and hockey are unpopular as a whole in the USA, they're just too back-and-forth with few shots, and even fewer points. Our short attention-span culture makes it difficult for people to watch players run back and forth the length of the field with no result each time other than the ball being kicked back to the other side. If basketball players rarely scored, you'd see that drop in popularity big time too. Remember back a few years when the Pistons played I believe the Pacers and the scores were something like 75-69 and people were saying left and right how boring it was?

Action sells. Difficulty doesn't.
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- Andy

Edited on 3/13/2007 3:34 PM

nd300 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 13, 2007, 07:45:36 PM »

Fireguy,
Carmen Salvino,Dick Weber,and Earl Anthony against you in their prime and on their lanes would probably beat you easily.In their prime and you in your prime on your condition they would still beat you.
Why?

?They could---and did----repeat the same shot over and over.Can you?

?
They didn't need the power of today's balls.They were that good.Let's see you get a Yellow Dot off of ebay and try your game and see what happens.
I bowl with several good young bowlers who can pretty much rip
the cover off the ball,and better than half the time they beat me.Yet I also beat them on a fairly regular basis.
Why?

??
When they're off,they leave big splits and washouts,whereas I leave single pin spares.Them being off by half a board or a mile or two an hour on ball speed is an advantage to them on wetter lanes,but to me on medium to drier lanes.
So take this as a lesson.Practice on carrydown and weekend sots when there's no oil and a ton of open bowling ahead of you on the lanes.You'll learn a lot about your game.

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Chris
Lane#1--nothing else hits like 'em.

agroves · « **Reply #43 on:** March 13, 2007, 09:25:25 PM »

quote:
yeah the good ole days of down and in and dump it, man that was bowling. Sorry todays bowlers are better those old films of weber and salvino make me laugh. They hooked the ball a whole 2 boards. Just like any sport the athlete has gotton better oops i forgot bowling is the exception to that rule. All bow to the elitist.

What an ignorant paragraph. They hooked the ball way more than two boards, but you wouldn't know that. The ball just didn't hook on the backend, it hooked much earlier as those oil patterns were far shorter than todays, not to mention the difference in ball technology.

The "athlete" has NOT gotten better. Sure the great bowlers are still great, but the avg house hack is far worse than 180 bowlers of yesteryear. I'm 25 and know that.

Go back under your rock or post your sport shot average to show us how great you are, douchebag.

Andrew
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FUFU

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Ahhbach · « **Reply #44 on:** March 13, 2007, 10:47:52 PM »

I Spoke with a proprietor not long ago and asked him why such an easy shot and he said 'you work 8 hours a day want to come here and work 3 more these guys want an easy shot' - I just shook my head.

The difference between todays bowlers and yesterdays bowlers, and I am talking about the 'action bowlers,' todays bowlers want to shoot numbers whereas yesteryears bowlers wanted to win money. In the past no one asked what you shot in potgames or tournaments it was how much did you win. Most bowlers today would rather shoot 250 and lose than shoot 180 and win... that is sad.

A

Eddie M · « **Reply #45 on:** March 13, 2007, 10:53:47 PM »

quote:

yeah the good ole days of down and in and dump it, man that was bowling. Sorry todays bowlers are better those old films of weber and salvino make me laugh. They hooked the ball a whole 2 boards. Just like any sport the athlete has gotton better oops i forgot bowling is the exception to that rule. All bow to the elitist.

By far the most ignorant thing I have seen in a long while.

Author Topic: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble.... (Read 7631 times)

FBM357

and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

J_Mac

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

Eddie M

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

J_Mac

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

Eddie M

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

toomanytenpins

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

JPL of VT

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

dizzyfugu

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

Fluff E Bunnie

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

myrddin97

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

jls

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

a_ak57

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

nd300

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

agroves

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

Ahhbach

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....

Eddie M

Re: and you wonder why bowling is in trouble....