quote:I think you are missing the point of the video. There are numerous ill-informed shop operators (just in my local area), who would fight you to the end in an aguement because they truly believe that a ball with 1/2 oz of side and 1/2 oz of thumb weight will roll differently that the same ball with the same pin position and 1/2 oz neg side and 1/2 oz of finger. As a matter of fact, I've had a discussion with a local "regional pro" who was convinced that a ball with thumb weight would be his best option for fresh heavy oil (totally ignoring the fact that it was a mild pearl).. simply because of the statics. What is going to be shown here is that REGARDLESS of statics, symmetric-core balls with identical pin positions react identically. Whether the difference is between 1/2 pos and 1/2 neg side weight (or 3 oz pos and 3 oz neg side...or finger... or thumb). This is only to prove a point that it doesn't matter what the ending statics are with regards to reaction.S^2--------------------
quote:quote:I think you are missing the point of the video. There are numerous ill-informed shop operators (just in my local area), who would fight you to the end in an aguement because they truly believe that a ball with 1/2 oz of side and 1/2 oz of thumb weight will roll differently that the same ball with the same pin position and 1/2 oz neg side and 1/2 oz of finger. As a matter of fact, I've had a discussion with a local "regional pro" who was convinced that a ball with thumb weight would be his best option for fresh heavy oil (totally ignoring the fact that it was a mild pearl).. simply because of the statics. What is going to be shown here is that REGARDLESS of statics, symmetric-core balls with identical pin positions react identically. Whether the difference is between 1/2 pos and 1/2 neg side weight (or 3 oz pos and 3 oz neg side...or finger... or thumb). This is only to prove a point that it doesn't matter what the ending statics are with regards to reaction.S^2--------------------Does that mean that statics DO matter on asymmetrically core balls?I'm just curious because I had an asymm ball that wouldn't move for me. Took it in and found 1 oz of pos side weight. Pro shop drilled existing x-hole deeper and took it to 1/2 oz pos side weight. Ball worked much better for me. Now, I'm just trying to understand the "why" so that I don't become one of those people that starts to believe that I NEED to have a specific side weight.--------------------FAQ:http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5Search Ballreviews entire database here: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
quote:If CG really doesn't matter then why even bother laying out a symmetrical ball? Why do people lay out balls with the CG moved all over the place, label, stacked, kicked out?I've seen the throwbot video, and really if they wanted to be scientific they should have stripped and oiled the lanes between each shot. The video doesn't show anything since the oil is moving and drying up, and each ball thrown reacts differently.
quote:I think you are missing the point of the video.
quote:quote:If CG really doesn't matter then why even bother laying out a symmetrical ball? Why do people lay out balls with the CG moved all over the place, label, stacked, kicked out?I've seen the throwbot video, and really if they wanted to be scientific they should have stripped and oiled the lanes between each shot. The video doesn't show anything since the oil is moving and drying up, and each ball thrown reacts differently.By different layout driller can plan ahead whether a weight hole is called for or not, on a symetrical core ball, we can use the weight hole to change the ending PSA by removing core mass from the weight hole. Again, the change of ball motion is not cause by the static weight.--------------------Laufaye
quote:7. Physics. acting by mere weight without producing motion: static pressure.adjective1. not in physical motion; "the inertia of an object at rest"
quote:What good does an ounce of thumb/finger weight, pos/neg side weight, do to a 14-16 lb object traveling at 12-20 mph with 150-400 rpms really mean??? Jack squat... 16 lbs = 256 ounces.. move an ounce here or there it will not make a difference in the new high tech/multi density cores on the market today.. Maneuver a pancake weight block in a rubber shell, then you might see a difference..Just my opinion, and I have no scientific proof or data to back it up..
quote: So lets say you set up two balls, one label without a weight hole and one with the CG kicked out with a weight hole. And lets say for grins that the weight hole on the 2nd ball doesn't hit the core. So essentially you are just taking out side weight to make the ball legal without affecting the dynamics of the core. Will both balls react the same? Or does that ounce taken out by the weight hole affect it?According to the CG no matter rule, the weight hole shouldn't affect anything in this case. So once again, why even bother with a layout?
quote:I'm still not convinced. Everybody here has felt what a out of balance wheel feels like on a car. In that case a tiny weight at the edge of the rim can affect how a 35lb wheel rolls. Why can't an ounce or two in a bowling ball affect the roll?*Edit* After quick search it looks like the largest wheel weight they make is 3oz. The smallest I could find is .25 of an ounce. So comparable to the numbers we are talking about with a bowling ball.Some quick math - a 26" tall tire (typical for a car) is doing 517rpms at 40mph. Taller truck and suv tires will be doing less rpms at the same speed.
quote:If you layout 2 same assymetric ball with the same Pin and MB position, regardless of CG position and legal or not it will react the same, however, because of that layout called for a weight hole to make it legal, the position and size/depth of the weight hole will have the effect on flare potential, hence different in ball reacton. But that different ball reaction is not cause by static weight positive/negative or finger/thumb, Is all cause by the X-hole position.--------------------Laufaye
quote:quote:If you layout 2 same assymetric ball with the same Pin and MB position, regardless of CG position and legal or not it will react the same, however, because of that layout called for a weight hole to make it legal, the position and size/depth of the weight hole will have the effect on flare potential, hence different in ball reacton. But that different ball reaction is not cause by static weight positive/negative or finger/thumb, Is all cause by the X-hole position.--------------------LaufayeOkay, so if the x-hole didn't move position, to what can I attribute the difference in ball reaction?I don't remember if the x-hole was drilled deeper, or if the guy drilled it bigger. Either way, I'm pretty sure the hole did not take out any material from the core. So, the only thing removed was the ball filler that made up 1/2 ounce.The lanes did not change in the time the guy watched me throw the ball, took it back and weighed it, and then removed the 1/2 ounce. Clearly I did not suddenly start throwing the ball better. I did however see a major difference in ball reaction.I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't understand how statics do not play a part in reaction. I only know what I experienced. Maybe when I take the 2 day pro shop class I'll understand better.--------------------FAQ:http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5Search Ballreviews entire database here: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
