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Author Topic: Early rolling layout  (Read 10213 times)

earlyrolling

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Early rolling layout
« on: March 04, 2016, 08:21:55 PM »
Of all the ball layout options available, would it be correct to say that a RICO layout is the best type of layout to get a ball to roll early (barring a surface change)?
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kidlost2000

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2016, 08:32:58 PM »
Depends on your pap. Id look at a shorter pin to pap layout and maybe adding a weight hole down the val. Surface choice also being the key factor
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billdozer

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2016, 08:36:12 PM »
Idk....pin down and an x hole under my midline always does the trick for me. The cover and surface prep matters most to me.
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coco3085

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2016, 09:35:19 AM »
Go to youtube and watch some of the new motiv ball videos. The ones made by motiv. Not in-depth, but shows 3 pin layouts and motions. Good little videos, now I wish pyramid would do it. Love thoses balls
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avabob

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2016, 11:24:14 AM »
An early rolling layout that I always like on symmetrical balls was 2x2 layout.  It works best when you don't combine it with a lot of surface ( overkill ).  Very good on shorter patterns and/or very fresh back ends.  Not a good layout for trying to open up the lane, but very good when you want to keep the ball in front of you and control the back end. 

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Strapper_Squared

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2016, 08:02:29 AM »
Keep in mind, the difference between asymmetrical and symmetrical cores.  Early rolling can mean very different types of layouts
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2016, 01:15:08 PM »
Quote from: earlyrolling on March 04, 2016, 08:21:55 PM
Of all the ball layout options available, would it be correct to say that a RICO layout is the best type of layout to get a ball to roll early (barring a surface change)?

No.

A layout on an asymmetric ball that has a drilling angle less than 45 degrees will roll sooner than a ball with a RICO layout. 

The Drilling Angle, affects the length of the skid phase of the ball.  The higher the drilling angle of an asymmetric ball, the longer the skid phase of the ball.　 The smaller the drilling angle, the quicker the transition into the hook phase of the ball.
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earlyrolling

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2016, 12:04:33 AM »
Thanks everyone. This was helpful.
One follow up question though:

Is the drilling angle of a symmetrical 2x2 layout smaller than 45 degrees?
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 12:07:36 PM »
No.

Absent a weight hole, the PSA of a symmetrical ball ends up being in or very close to the thumb hole after being drilled.  A symmetrical ball needs a balance hole to pull the PSA away from the thumb hole to effectively make the drilling angle smaller. 

The best way to get a symmetrical into an earlier roll is with surface changes and weight holes.
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J_w73

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2016, 08:54:30 PM »
Keep in mind that on a symmetrical ball, with shorter pin to paps, the VAL angle or pin buffer will not  make as much of a difference in the reaction..  The VAL angle or pin buffer will make a lot more difference in the reaction on a longer pin to pap layout.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 09:00:18 PM by J_w73 »
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JustRico

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2016, 09:42:18 AM »
Don't get too caught up in the whole angle mystic is a symmetrical core balls...and in asymmetrical core balls, unless the asymmetry amounts to .010 or higher they're glorified symmetrical core balls
I could lay out a ball with a 2" pin and place a weight hole, in a plethora of placements, 2" from the PAP and if the bowler NEVER knew where the CG was, eliminating the mystical drill angle...the bowler would NEVER know it and it would still roll as planned...
Too many sound 'intelligent' by using the latest terminology that do not truly understand ball reaction/motion...and what causes/effects it
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 12:15:38 PM »
Rico, instead of repeating your disdain for dual angle terminology over and over again (cause really, at this point we get it loud and clear), could you be part of the solution and give your opinion on the topic at hand - what, in your opinion, is the "best" layout on a symmetrical ball that will result in a ball getting into an early roll?  Feel free to say RICO if that's how you feel...Also, would you agree with me that surface would be the first thing to adjust to get a ball into an earlier roll?
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JustRico

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2016, 01:31:53 PM »
My insipid point is, which TOO MANY miss is actually understanding what a layout does instead of believing it's an absolute...whether anyone believes that or likes it
Surface dictates motion which is 70-80% of the reaction...so a layout where the pin is closer to the pap will slow it to transition sooner and slower...a 2" pin WITH a 2" weight hole will create an earlier motion on the lane
The Rico allows more overall reaction with continuation...if the bowler has a lower pap the Rico will be sufficient for what the bowler is trying to create but surface always wins
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traderfjp

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Re: Early rolling layout
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2016, 11:35:07 PM »
Rico isn't for everyone.  Some people will have problems with the ball tracking over their thumbs.
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