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Author Topic: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics  (Read 8155 times)

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Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« on: December 11, 2013, 06:16:57 PM »
This article was pretty interesting and well written, so i thought you guys might find it an interesting read also. Back to Bowling Basics
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St. Croix

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2013, 07:33:54 PM »
Thanks for the link---good article. I have a problem with this sentence:

"Bowling consistency and bowler accuracy has absolutely Zero to do with the pins all falling down."

A tad strong? Zero? Not even 10%? LOL
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2013, 07:50:08 PM »
Thanks for the link---good article. I have a problem with this sentence:

"Bowling consistency and bowler accuracy has absolutely Zero to do with the pins all falling down."

A tad strong? Zero? Not even 10%? LOL

The full sentence:
"Bowler consistency and bowler accuracy has absolutely zero to do with the pins all falling down, it has to do with physics behaving."
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Gizmo823

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2013, 08:59:04 AM »
It's a strong statement meant to draw attention to the physics part, because if physics don't cooperate, the pins aren't going down even if you split boards every shot.  A later statement is made saying that there's a lot you can do to improve the probability of a strike, and bowling is set up to make the physics behave as consistently as possible.  It's a really backwards way of looking at it, but it's meant to drive the point home.  I don't know how many times I've thrown the perfect shot and left something ridiculous, or made a horrific shot and splashed stuff everywhere.  Physics is the gateway, it's like having a pane of glass in front of a dartboard.  Unless you move that pane of glass, you aren't hitting a thing no matter how accurate you are.  So if physics cooperate, consistency and accuracy have everything to do with the pins going down, but if they don't, you can't throw it good enough to overcome them.  It's an equation in parenthesis, it's gotta be done first before you can get anywhere else, so logic therefore dictates that physics is 100% responsible regardless of other factors.  Or in other words, it's a completely logical statement, but it sounds off if you're thinking rationally.  Obviously you can't get a strike if you throw it in the gutter, nothing physics can do there.  But assuming an absolutely flawless shot, you can still leave a stone 8 or 9. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

milorafferty

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2013, 09:57:41 AM »
Sorry, but if you have thrown an "an absolutely flawless shot", you will NOT leave a "stone 8 or 9".
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Gizmo823

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2013, 10:09:44 AM »
So a bit of track burn can't make the ball "stand up" or "roll out?"  Pins can't be off spot?  Can't be any carrydown?  An absolutely flawless shot off your hand can be an absolute catastrophe at the pins.  If flawless shots equalled strikes, EARL would never miss.  Again, physics dominate regardless.  A flawless shot doesn't equal flawless results.  Gotta adjust perspective. 

Sorry, but if you have thrown an "an absolutely flawless shot", you will NOT leave a "stone 8 or 9".
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

milorafferty

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 10:31:17 AM »
The "perspective" is that it wasn't a perfect shot.

If you didn't adjust for track burn, it's not a perfect shot. (Because it didn't burn out since the LAST shot you threw, right? It is a gradual process, pay attention and adjust)

If you didn't adjust for carrydown, it's not a perfect shot.

If you didn't check the pins for correct placement and reset them, it's not a perfect shot. (And a pin being 1/4" off doesn't make that much difference anyway. Maybe if they were 1/2" or more off, but you should be able to spot that and reset the pins)

Something YOU did caused the 8 and or 9 pin to be left standing.

And by the way, Earl missed shots just like everyone else.

So a bit of track burn can't make the ball "stand up" or "roll out?"  Pins can't be off spot?  Can't be any carrydown?  An absolutely flawless shot off your hand can be an absolute catastrophe at the pins.  If flawless shots equalled strikes, EARL would never miss.  Again, physics dominate regardless.  A flawless shot doesn't equal flawless results.  Gotta adjust perspective. 

Sorry, but if you have thrown an "an absolutely flawless shot", you will NOT leave a "stone 8 or 9".
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Gizmo823

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 10:52:43 AM »
That's also another point though, you can't realistically adjust for all that.  Even if you inspected all the pins right up on the deck before throwing the shot, took a magnifying glass to the lanes to see exactly where the oil was at, got a reading of the exact volume of every inch of the line you intend on throwing, obtained a map of the lane topography, the probability of you literally throwing a perfect shot is so astronomical it's laughable.  Even then, the pins have to all make contact with each other perfectly, and the ball has to deflect perfectly to split the 8 and the 9.  I was exaggerating for the sake of a point, the flawless shot is a literal impossibility, and even a flawless shot relies on physics "behaving," which requires an incalculable amount of things to happen "correctly" due to the shape of the pins, their spacing, density, surface integrity, thickness and bonding of the coating, etc. 

If you're bowling 5 man teams, it's entirely possible for burn or carrydown to set in enough to cause a difference in your shot. 

A pin being 1/4 off can make all the difference in the world when it comes to physics equations. 

So if you are responsible for leaving an 8 or a 9, you would also have to be responsible for tripping the 1-2-4 from behind.  These are purely logical and mathematical statements. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

milorafferty

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 11:09:39 AM »
You are making my point though, you ARE responsible for tripping the 1-2-4 from behind. Although I would like to see you repeat THAT shot.  ;D Same thing with a Brooklyn strike.

Every pin that falls is a result of something YOU did, it wasn't fate, it wasn't that you "got robbed", it wasn't a fluke, it was a "flaw" in your process.

The fact is, bowling pins are top heavy and unstable to begin with, so anytime you leave one standing, it's on you.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Gizmo823

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2013, 11:27:21 AM »
Lol and you're consequently making mine.  You're not responsible for any of it, physics is.  Because being perfectly consistent is a literal impossibility, physics becomes completely responsible. 

You are making my point though, you ARE responsible for tripping the 1-2-4 from behind. Although I would like to see you repeat THAT shot.  ;D Same thing with a Brooklyn strike.

Every pin that falls is a result of something YOU did, it wasn't fate, it wasn't that you "got robbed", it wasn't a fluke, it was a "flaw" in your process.

The fact is, bowling pins are top heavy and unstable to begin with, so anytime you leave one standing, it's on you.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

milorafferty

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 11:33:20 AM »
Sorry, but the laws of physics doesn't change to screw you out of a strike. If the pins didn't go down, you didn't throw a "flawless" shot. By definition, the shot had to be flawed. Otherwise, you are just making excuses.

So, when you aren't blaming physics, do you blame the laneman?  ;D ;D

Lol and you're consequently making mine.  You're not responsible for any of it, physics is.  Because being perfectly consistent is a literal impossibility, physics becomes completely responsible. 

You are making my point though, you ARE responsible for tripping the 1-2-4 from behind. Although I would like to see you repeat THAT shot.  ;D Same thing with a Brooklyn strike.

Every pin that falls is a result of something YOU did, it wasn't fate, it wasn't that you "got robbed", it wasn't a fluke, it was a "flaw" in your process.

The fact is, bowling pins are top heavy and unstable to begin with, so anytime you leave one standing, it's on you.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Gizmo823

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2013, 11:42:56 AM »
So physics behave the exact same 100% of the time?  That's basically what you're saying.  http://wiki.croomphysics.com/index.php?title=The_Physics_of_Bowling

Sorry, but the laws of physics doesn't change to screw you out of a strike. If the pins didn't go down, you didn't throw a "flawless" shot. By definition, the shot had to be flawed. Otherwise, you are just making excuses.

So, when you aren't blaming physics, do you blame the laneman?  ;D ;D

Lol and you're consequently making mine.  You're not responsible for any of it, physics is.  Because being perfectly consistent is a literal impossibility, physics becomes completely responsible. 

You are making my point though, you ARE responsible for tripping the 1-2-4 from behind. Although I would like to see you repeat THAT shot.  ;D Same thing with a Brooklyn strike.

Every pin that falls is a result of something YOU did, it wasn't fate, it wasn't that you "got robbed", it wasn't a fluke, it was a "flaw" in your process.

The fact is, bowling pins are top heavy and unstable to begin with, so anytime you leave one standing, it's on you.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

milorafferty

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2013, 11:49:23 AM »
The Laws of Physics are based on Constants.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/constant

By definition they don't change. You have to change when the conditions change. If you don't, you have not delivered a "flawless" shot.

But you can look at it however you wish, I'm done with this.  ;D 8)

So physics behave the exact same 100% of the time?  That's basically what you're saying.  http://wiki.croomphysics.com/index.php?title=The_Physics_of_Bowling

Sorry, but the laws of physics doesn't change to screw you out of a strike. If the pins didn't go down, you didn't throw a "flawless" shot. By definition, the shot had to be flawed. Otherwise, you are just making excuses.

So, when you aren't blaming physics, do you blame the laneman?  ;D ;D

Lol and you're consequently making mine.  You're not responsible for any of it, physics is.  Because being perfectly consistent is a literal impossibility, physics becomes completely responsible. 

You are making my point though, you ARE responsible for tripping the 1-2-4 from behind. Although I would like to see you repeat THAT shot.  ;D Same thing with a Brooklyn strike.

Every pin that falls is a result of something YOU did, it wasn't fate, it wasn't that you "got robbed", it wasn't a fluke, it was a "flaw" in your process.

The fact is, bowling pins are top heavy and unstable to begin with, so anytime you leave one standing, it's on you.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Gizmo823

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2013, 11:57:19 AM »
Physics will react the same 100% of the time given that 100% of the constants are the same.  The shot to shot constants of things outside the bowler's control or ability to perceive are nowhere near 100%, resulting in physics being the deciding factor, even if bowler consistency is 100%.  The change in constants changes the physics, requiring every shot adjustments by the bowler to match up to the new constants.  This is impossible.  If you throw a dart, then you are blindfolded, and the dartboard moved, the critical factor here is the dartboard being moved, not the skill of the bowler, making the physics of those adjusted constants beyond control or perception the primary factor. 

What you're talking about is a secondary factor, relying on a complete 100% consistency of other constants.  Assuming a 100% consistency of all other factors, the bowler would then become 100% responsible for what happens. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Gizmo823

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Re: Great Bowling Article- Back to Bowling Basics
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2013, 12:02:50 PM »
By definition, a constant is a constant.  But nothing in bowling is perfectly constant, therefore making this facet of it irrelevant.  The outstanding point of this article is to show that there are too many things outside your control, and there's a point where being too technical gets out of hand and can hurt you more than help you, or completely distract you from the bare essentials of what is important.  It's attempting to point you in the direction of giving the most attention to the things that are most important or that you have the most control over. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?