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Author Topic: HANDICAP LEAGUES!  (Read 3011 times)

JOE FALCO

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HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« on: September 04, 2003, 04:28:04 AM »
Is this the way it works?

League established .. defining HANDICAP as 90% of difference between average and 215. This is understandable and I realize it favors bowlers that are closer to the 215 average (i.e., a team of 200 bowlers bowling against a team of 190 bowlers .. all bowling AVERAGE .. the 200 team would win). What I don't understand is a bowler with a 225 average receiving a 0 handicap. Shouldn't the 225 average receive a MINUS 9 to make the handicaps respectable? The higher average maintains an ADVANTAGE with this method .. otherwise the 225 is really TAKING ADVANTAGE of the other bowlers.

Am I MISSING SOMETHING? Could it be that this PERCENTAGE of 215 was developed for bowlers where there were NO AVERAGES over that average? It doesn't sound FAIR to ..me  

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da Shiv

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2003, 02:16:00 PM »
As was already pointed out, the best solution to the main problem being discussed here is to figure the handicap on a team basis rather than on an individual basis.  My league that starts tonight gives a team 85% from 1050, since we have no teams over 1050.  The number used to be 950, and when a team got over 950 a number of years ago, the following summer at the league meeting we raised the number to 1000.  When a team got over 1000 a few years ago, we voted the number up to 1050.  

This doesn't help when it comes to jackpots.  In my leagues, the rules for the jackpots are established by whoever is running the jackpot.  If someone is running a handicap jackpot that handicaps from 200 and there are 215 bowlers in that jackpot, the 215 bowlers have an edge and that discourages some of the lower bowlers from getting in.  If the person running the jackpot wants that jackpot to have any size to it, they have to adjust the rules to encourage more bowlers to get in.  If you feel the jackpot's rules are stacked against you, you have the option of not getting in--or starting a jackpot that has rules that suit you and try to drum up support for your jackpot.

 
quote:
It's a common misperception that higher average bowlers
                                         always have the advantage in handicap. This may be true in
                                         situations where nobody is improving (i.e. seniors, mixed
                                         handicap 'just for fun', etc.). However, in leagues where folks
                                         are competitive (where you want to be), lower average bowlers
                                         have a better chance of improving, and therefore handicap
                                         works to their advantage. This is one reason I no longer bowl
                                         handicap.


In this quote, Steven points out the principle weakness of handicap leagues.  Since not everyone can compete scratch, and it's safe to say that nobody wants to know that their 800 team is going to get stomped every week by the 1000 teams bowling scratch, just about the only way to keep lower average bowlers in the league is to have a handicap.  This does occasionally result in the problem Steven pointed out.  Personally, I like handicap leagues, and I've been fortunate to have not run into the situation Steven points out very much--or at least not to a dramatic enough extent that it enables a novice team to run away with the league.  This did happen last year, however.  In my Tuesday league, we had a new team of young guys.  Just about every year we have a new team of young guys, but they usually don't take enough of an interest in the game to bother to learn to bowl better, and they stay down in the cellar.  Last year, these guys got into it, and after establishing low averages in the early going, they started to get interested in the game and worked at it and in the second half two or three of them were shooting 100 pins over every night and their averages--while rising--didn't keep up.  They ran away with the second half, and it kind of annoyed everybody.  Since they were a friendly bunch and since we don't bowl for serious money anyway--and since a more experienced team beat them in the league playoffs--it didn't become a real issue.  There was discussion of having some kind mid-season re-rating procedure for bowlers who had started to bowl well over average on a regular basis, but nobody came up with a system that was acceptable to enough people to pass a vote.  We bowlers are an ornery bunch.

Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to finally getting started tonight.

Shiv
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seadrive

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2003, 05:32:03 PM »
quote:
It seems obvious to me that a 215 average bowler could have an off night and bowl 45 pins below his average (for the night) and not hurt his/her team.  But for some strange reason, the lower average bowlers cant see this.  They only see that the 'better' bowlers are getting handicap if the cap is at 220.

MI 2 AZ,

Just put together a couple of different scenarios, and show them that the lower the handicap base, the greater the advantage to the higher-average bowlers, since the lower the handicap base, the closer you are to scratch bowling.  Everyone understands that higher-average bowlers have the advantage in scratch leagues.

Let's compare two bowlers, one with a 180 average, another with a 220 average.

Scenario #1: 80% of 240

Bowler #1 gets (240-180)*0.80 = 48 pins + 180 avg = 228
Bowler #2 gets (240-220)*0.80 = 16 pins + 220 avg = 232

So at 80% of 240, if bowler #2 bowls his average, bowler #1 has to bowl 5 pins over his average to win the game.

Scenario #2: 80% of 200 (no neg handicap)

Bowler #1 gets (200-180)*0.80 = 16 pins + 180 avg = 196
Bowler #2 gets 0 pins + 220 avg = 220

Under scenario #2, if the 220 average bowler bowls his average, the 180 average bowler must now bowl 25 pins over his average to win the game.

In a handicap league, you always want to set the cap above the highest average.


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MI 2 AZ

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2003, 06:11:52 PM »
quote:
In a handicap league, you always want to set the cap above the highest average.

 


Seadrive, thanks.  I understand that and managed to convince the league of that fact a couple of years ago but when the manager of the center who is a regional PBA cardholder told them that having a lower baseline (200) will benefit the lower average bowlers, they voted his way.  Of course, his team won the league championship.  I had already committed myself to this season, so I will probably be looking for a new league next season.
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JOE FALCO

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2003, 07:53:01 PM »
STEVEN .. I agree with you!!!! (Put that in the record!). Seriously .. I don't remember coming into this problem before .. and I've been bowling a LONG time. For the last 4 years (since being in NC) I've been bowling with SENIORS in leagues as described by SAWBONES and really enjoying them. This year I'm moving back to the HANDICAP leagues with sizeable PRIZE FUNDS. Back in NY the cutoff score was 210 and there was NO ONE (that I can remember)above that .. looks like AVERAGES have improved over the last 4 years.

I'm concluding from answers that a FAIR handicap method would be a PERCENTAGE (90% preferred)with a cutoff score of 5 over the highest average in the league. Naturally, someone might go over that CUT-OFF during the year .. but if we are working with established averages .. this should not happen.

I think I'd be very happy with that approach .. it appears to give the HIGHER AVERAGES a slight advantage .. but I CONCUR that they deserve it .. I believe (and other have stated it) that it is TOTALLY UN-FAIR to have ESTABLISHED AVERAGES in a HANDICAP league in excess of the CUT-OFF SCORE.

Incidentally DA-SHIVE .. I think your league approach sounds fair .. my only thought on that would be a STACKED TEAM .. in my concept .. 5 bowlers at 1050 gives 210 per bowler .. if a team was made up of 4 .. 220 bowlers and 1 .. 170 bowler they would meet your requirement and I believe would have AN ADVANTAGE .. but that's how I see it!

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Hit them light and watch them fight
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RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

Strider

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2003, 09:09:23 PM »
What most of the leagues around here do is give a percentage (usually 80% or 90%) of the difference between the team averages.  That way you don't have to worry about any kind of penalty for individuals over the cap number.  Unless it's the only league they can make, I don't know why 220+ average bowlers are bowling handicap leagues.  Even so, if they are going to do it based on individual averages, they should probably base it on 230 or 240.  Try to have whatever makes the most sense voted into the league rules next year.
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JOE FALCO

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2003, 09:37:49 PM »
STRIDER .. I applied your method and it APPEARS to be the SIMPLEST/MOST HONEST approach to a HANDICAP LEAGUE. I think I'm going to ATTEMPT convincing this (my) league to take that approach. I'm sure they will PEG me as an instigator .. but I don't like to see anyone taking advantage of .. ESPECIALLY MYSELF!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
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RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

JOE FALCO

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2003, 11:20:05 PM »
BOWL300 .. I agree 100% ..I think more BOWLERS have to speak up .. it's a shame to NOT HAVE A CHANCE .. and having bowlers averages exceeding the CUT-OFF is definitely NOT FAIR!

The more I consider STRIDER's league approach .. the more I like it. It's not something I HAVEN'T SEEN before .. it's just something I never THOUGHT ABOUT! I think the LARGE PRIZE FUNDS and the HIGHER AVERAGES made me SEE THE LIGHT!

I figure if they are going to take my money .. LET THEM BOWL FOR IT!      

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Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E - F A L C O

Edited on 9/5/2003 11:32 PM
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!