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Author Topic: HANDICAP LEAGUES!  (Read 3010 times)

JOE FALCO

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HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« on: September 04, 2003, 04:28:04 AM »
Is this the way it works?

League established .. defining HANDICAP as 90% of difference between average and 215. This is understandable and I realize it favors bowlers that are closer to the 215 average (i.e., a team of 200 bowlers bowling against a team of 190 bowlers .. all bowling AVERAGE .. the 200 team would win). What I don't understand is a bowler with a 225 average receiving a 0 handicap. Shouldn't the 225 average receive a MINUS 9 to make the handicaps respectable? The higher average maintains an ADVANTAGE with this method .. otherwise the 225 is really TAKING ADVANTAGE of the other bowlers.

Am I MISSING SOMETHING? Could it be that this PERCENTAGE of 215 was developed for bowlers where there were NO AVERAGES over that average? It doesn't sound FAIR to ..me  
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mumzie

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2003, 07:35:54 PM »
Depends on the league rules. They have to have a provision for negative handicap.
Personally I won't bowl a league that takes pins away. I work too darn hard to knock 'em down!

I would rather that handicap be 110% of 300 than have negative handicap!
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JOE FALCO

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2003, 07:45:14 PM »
Then you would agree that 250 would be a better number to start with? Am I right that in the scenario that I outline the 225 bowler has a LARGE ADVANTAGE and it would be TOUGH to BEAT HIM/HER? Remember the 225 bowler is automatically ahead 10 pins per game and 30 pins per series!
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dicnic

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2003, 07:52:18 PM »
The guideline we used to use was that the handicap was based upon some percentage of the difference between your average and a number HIGHER than the highest average bowler. However, nowadays it seems that some arbitrary number is chosen and the bowlers with averages higher than the handicap basis have a slight advantage. For example, in my Wednesday evening mixed league the basis number is 220 but we have one bowler who averaged 232 last year. He was the only one so nobody complained much. Of course, his team won the league!  
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JOE FALCO

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2003, 08:13:12 PM »
That's my point .. anyone with an average EXCEEDING the CUT-OFF has an ADVANTAGE. Especially when all others are giving a HANDICAP of 90% (or less) of that CUT OFF score. Anyone buying into a league like that is being TAKEN! The CUT-OFF score MUST EXCEED the HIGHEST BOWLER (in the leagues) AVERAGE! Otherwise you might as well give the money to that BOWLERS TEAM each week .. the possibilities that they will LOSE is REMOTE!
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Edited on 9/4/2003 8:23 PM
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charlest

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2003, 08:52:13 PM »
Joe,

Yes, you are right, BUT if the league does not have a rule to cover this, then the guy gets .....
The handicap should be based on a number higher than the highest average or even the highest expected average. The rules should state what it is.


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JOE FALCO

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2003, 09:16:19 PM »
Thank you for your comments. I was looking for someone to tell me that IT SOUNDED RIGHT before I presented my argument to the LEAGUE OFFICIALS.

Thanks again!
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CB

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2003, 12:14:06 AM »
Joe,
As a result of just that situation several of the leagues in my area have gone to team handicap.  One leagu, a just for fun Vegas league, uses 100% of the difference between team handicaps.  Another uses 90% of 945, the league team max.  It makes it a more fair playing field and takes into account the high average bowler.  We used the 90% of 945 during the summer and it kept the teams pretty evenly matched.  No one ran away with the league.
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2003, 01:38:00 AM »
This issue is a sore point with me.

On my mixed league, I managed to convince the league to adopt a 90% from 220 a couple of years ago (there were no bowlers over 215 and at the time I had a 202 entering average).  Then, the following year, the manager (averaging 210) joined the league as a bowler and told the league that that was unfair to the lower average bowlers because bowlers who average over 200 should get zero handicap.  So they passed the handicap to be 90% from 200 while there are bowlers in the league with over 210 averages.

It seems obvious to me that a 215 average bowler could have an off night and bowl 45 pins below his average (for the night) and not hurt his/her team.  But for some strange reason, the lower average bowlers cant see this.  They only see that the 'better' bowlers are getting handicap if the cap is at 220.
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Enzo

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2003, 03:13:35 AM »
Those guys with higher average earn those "advantage", they work hard to get those high average. If you think they have unfair advantage, go to some place with lower average bowler.

PS : I am a 180+ bowler, not a 220+ but I admire those guys and working my way up to a 200+...
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cgilyeat

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2003, 06:35:17 AM »
Handicaps are ALWAYS a problem, you can't make every one happy.  About all you can do, is have a league meeting to make the change.  But, be ready for compaints.  If I were the 225 average bowler, and was told that there were minus pins for any average over the handicap basis, I'd be out the door.
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JOE FALCO

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2003, 08:51:39 AM »
I agree a HANDICAP makes a LEAGUE MORE competitive. Yes 90% of a CUT-OFF average is FAIR and it gives the HIGHER BOWLERS an advantage (slight .. but an advantage).

The Questionable case is where BOWLERS in a league are averaging HIGHER then the CUT OFF .. these bowlers have an UN-QUESTIONABLE advantage that knocks competition out of the box.

Example .. the CUT-OFF is 215 .. a BOWLER enters with 225. That bowler throws a 175 .. he's 50 below his average .. the scoring will show him as 40 below ..  if he does that for three games he would have 30 points more then he should .. and that's a lot of wood to MAKE-UP to beat a guy who BOWLED LOUSY!

SAWBONES .. I bowl in leagues that do exactly as you describe .. and those leagues are a lot of fun .. I use them for PRACTICE .. in some (NOT ALL) these are NON-SANCTIONED leagues and the cost per session is $5 .. I love them! Now I also bowl in leagues where the cost is $20 per session. At the end of the season the PRIZE FUND is substantial .. entering a SCRATCH league where everyone KNOWS where the competition is .. ACCEPTABLE .. HANDICAP leagues where there are a NUMBER OF BOWLERS over the CUT-OFF .. TO ME UN-ACCEPTABLE and should NOT be TOLERATED by BOWLERS!
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2003, 11:59:13 AM »
quote:
Those guys with higher average earn those "advantage", they work hard to get those high average. If you think they have unfair advantage, go to some place with lower average bowler.



Ok.  That is what scratch leagues are for.

Amazingly, most of those '200+' average bowlers refuse to bowl in the scratch sport league. Yet, you find them bowling in almost all of the handicap leagues.
 Out of the 13 bowlers that showed up for the sport league, only three were 200 average bowlers and one quit after the first week.
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cgilyeat

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2003, 12:11:18 PM »
Joe,

I understand your frustation with the higher average bowlers, but I still feel that giving a bowler negative pins for handicap is penalizing that bowler for being good enough to have that average.  If there are a "number" of bowlers in the league that carry averages higher than the handicap cutoff, then perhaps it's time to raise the cutoff average to something above the highest average.   But, if there are only one or two averages that high, unless they are on the same team or every one else on the team is near the cutoff average, then it really shoudn't give the team a great advantage.
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Steven

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Re: HANDICAP LEAGUES!
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2003, 01:36:54 PM »
Joe: Some thoughts:

 
quote:
League established .. defining HANDICAP as 90% of difference between average and 215. This is understandable and I realize it favors bowlers that are closer to the 215 average  


It's a common misperception that higher average bowlers always have the advantage in handicap. This may be true in situations where nobody is improving (i.e. seniors, mixed handicap 'just for fun', etc.). However, in leagues where folks are competitive (where you want to be), lower average bowlers have a better chance of improving, and therefore handicap works to their advantage. This is one reason I no longer bowl handicap.


 
quote:
What I don't understand is a bowler with a 225 average receiving a 0 handicap. Shouldn't the 225 average receive a MINUS 9 to make the handicaps respectable?


Good observation, but the answer here is to set the number on which handicap is calculated greater than the highest average in the league. So for example, if the highest average is 225, establish handicap at 90% of 230.  


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