Author Topic: I went to the USBC website and saw this.... (Read 24849 times)

xrayjay · « **on:** October 25, 2016, 04:09:37 PM »

I was looking for a list of coaches in my area, just being curious to who they are.

Then I found this....

http://bowl.com/TheCore/Info/

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #76 on:** October 30, 2016, 11:21:16 AM »

Quote from: morpheus on October 29, 2016, 10:11:15 AM

Quote from: Good Times Good Times on October 27, 2016, 07:49:33 AM
morpheus, you voted with your wallet this season and didn't buy a sanction card if I remember right?

That's correct, I am no longer sanctioned but stay active practicing twice a week and competing in unsanctioned tournaments. While I miss being able to participate with friends and family, based on principle I refuse to support an organization that's clearly incapable or unwilling to get membership growing again after decades of declines.

Credit where it's due for walking the walk. So many today like to bitch but not take action. While the USBC certainly isn't perfect I feel I get $20 value in the protection of league money, the record keeping and I also participate in the Open Championships (which the experience alone, to me, is worth the meager $20).

Steven · « **Reply #77 on:** October 30, 2016, 01:35:22 PM »

Quote from: morpheus on October 29, 2016, 10:11:15 AM

Quote from: Good Times Good Times on October 27, 2016, 07:49:33 AM
morpheus, you voted with your wallet this season and didn't buy a sanction card if I remember right?

That's correct, I am no longer sanctioned but stay active practicing twice a week and competing in unsanctioned tournaments. While I miss being able to participate with friends and family, based on principle I refuse to support an organization that's clearly incapable or unwilling to get membership growing again after decades of declines.

I also give credit for sticking to your principles, regardless of how misguided they might be.

Still, giving up bowling with friends and family, and having to forgo meaningful tournaments for the sake of martyrdom seems counterproductive. Especially since nobody at USBC headquarters is losing sleep over your missing membership.

We're not going to agree on what the USBC can realistically do to counteract societal changes that are beyond the impact point of any organization. But if you can ever articulate a practical approach the USBC can take beyond the toothless abstract talking points you've offered, you have a ready audience that will listen. It would be nice if we could even partially turn back the clock.

noslouch · « **Reply #78 on:** October 30, 2016, 03:06:42 PM »

Steven....
All I can say is "WOW". Pretty nice bold statement you just gave us. "Especially since nobody at USBC headquarter is losing sleep over your missing membership". I'm sure those individuals whom have lost their employment at USBC over the last 4 years would disagree with you. Unless the USBC has the intent to rehire them back since they have raised membership fees. So that equates to 4.5 million dollars more to spend from the coffers. Less the 200,000 lost members for this year. Looks like the Shark pool is getting a little less fish to eat.

morpheus · « **Reply #79 on:** October 30, 2016, 03:33:05 PM »

Quote from: Steven on October 30, 2016, 01:35:22 PM

Quote from: morpheus on October 29, 2016, 10:11:15 AM
Quote from: Good Times Good Times on October 27, 2016, 07:49:33 AM
morpheus, you voted with your wallet this season and didn't buy a sanction card if I remember right?

That's correct, I am no longer sanctioned but stay active practicing twice a week and competing in unsanctioned tournaments. While I miss being able to participate with friends and family, based on principle I refuse to support an organization that's clearly incapable or unwilling to get membership growing again after decades of declines.

I also give credit for sticking to your principles, regardless of how misguided they might be.

Still, giving up bowling with friends and family, and having to forgo meaningful tournaments for the sake of martyrdom seems counterproductive. Especially since nobody at USBC headquarters is losing sleep over your missing membership.

We're not going to agree on what the USBC can realistically do to counteract societal changes that are beyond the impact point of any organization. But if you can ever articulate a practical approach the USBC can take beyond the toothless abstract talking points you've offered, you have a ready audience that will listen. It would be nice if we could even partially turn back the clock.

Unfortunately you're right, nobody at the USBC cares about membership. As I've articulated several times before, the current way the system works is broken, but you and the USBC seem content to just raise dues and let the decline continue. The recent dues increase was to "continue the current level of services" so unless the current grassroots model suddenly starts growing membership, increases will continue on a shrinking pool of members because they can't cut anymore without reduction in services. At this point, the USBC is a charity because without growth in membership, the financial model is only sustainable by increasing dues.

morpheus · « **Reply #80 on:** October 30, 2016, 05:24:44 PM »

And just to be clear, if anyone at then national level could articulate a plan to grow membership with accountability at the highest levels, I would be happy to pay far more than the current dues. Instead, the only thing coming out of the USBC is "A Future for the Sport" and resurrecting the PWBA vaguely implying this wiill somehow grow membership...well it's not working and I see no one being held accountable. The only people getting paid in this local association model are the people working at the USBC, and in return for the hard work put in by volunteers they get virtually no training/education or marketing support from the USBC or BPAA but hand over $10 of every sanction. Honestly, the people getting paid in this model should be the ones solving this problem, but regardless whether my plan would work or not, I'm not sure it could do much worse than the plan that's been in place while we've lost millions of members.

noslouch · « **Reply #81 on:** October 30, 2016, 07:29:53 PM »

Of course their plan is working. It's been a working model of modern Unions. Just look at how much their numbers have grown. Muscle the money from the people to empower the few. Just look at the past dot com failures of quick get rich failures. Build it and you will be rich. They just had to hope the stock didn't tank before the six month period so they could dump their stock on the fools buying fools gold.The PBA is much like watching quarter horse racing. It's hard to watch them bowl past six frames with out them bitching about the oil disappearing. I'm sure they will petition to only bowl 2 games then re-oil soon. Gotta love sponge bowling. It's The Future for the Sport.
Only a couple more years before membership gets to 500,000 strong. That will be the new slogan. "We are 500,000 Strong". Building upon 30 years of decline. Watch us grow.
Bowling has been a BIG JOKE the past 24 years. And I bought into the revolution when reactive resin came out. Yes I took advantage of it. Because, I was destroying the competition. After having watched so many tournaments be decimated by it's introduction. The OLD TIMERS didn't want to compete any longer. Don't blame them for leaving. The only people left to be heard don't want to fix it. Just like the Teamster Leaders. Because it would mean going back to the stone age.

spmcgivern · « **Reply #82 on:** October 31, 2016, 08:05:03 AM »

I have a question for those who are disappointed with the USBC. What is it specifically you want from USBC? I hear a lot of talk about growing membership and getting more money to USBC, but what is the end result? Do bowlers want to bring back awards? Do bowlers want something else?

I have yet to hear a valid reason to even raise membership. If a bowler is unhappy with USBC, getting more members won't change that. Either you support the path USBC has taken to promote the sport of bowling or you don't. Right now, a lot of what USBC does isn't directly in support of the general membership population. It is for the select few who are good enough reap the benefits of being at the Team USA level.

If that path isn't what you want to promote, then don't be a member. I wouldn't discredit anyone for doing that. But if you like the idea of promoting the competitive side of bowling (men, women and youth), then be a member. I personally like the competitive side of bowling. I don't want it to go away. Can it be better, you bet. But it is better today than it was 10 years ago.

mainzer · « **Reply #83 on:** October 31, 2016, 09:14:34 AM »

+1 I hear whining but no solutions

Quote from: spmcgivern on October 31, 2016, 08:05:03 AM

I have a question for those who are disappointed with the USBC. What is it specifically you want from USBC? I hear a lot of talk about growing membership and getting more money to USBC, but what is the end result? Do bowlers want to bring back awards? Do bowlers want something else?

I have yet to hear a valid reason to even raise membership. If a bowler is unhappy with USBC, getting more members won't change that. Either you support the path USBC has taken to promote the sport of bowling or you don't. Right now, a lot of what USBC does isn't directly in support of the general membership population. It is for the select few who are good enough reap the benefits of being at the Team USA level.

If that path isn't what you want to promote, then don't be a member. I wouldn't discredit anyone for doing that. But if you like the idea of promoting the competitive side of bowling (men, women and youth), then be a member. I personally like the competitive side of bowling. I don't want it to go away. Can it be better, you bet. But it is better today than it was 10 years ago.

morpheus · « **Reply #84 on:** October 31, 2016, 09:36:31 AM »

Growth in membership raises all boats, so your statement arguing against growth honestly makes no sense. Competitive bowling, both amateur and professional, benefit greatly when membership is strong making it more marketable because the audience is larger. Even if only 1% of membership is interested in the sport of bowling, 1% of 6 million is more than 1% of 1 million meaning more entries and more sponsors.

Manufacturers benefit from membership growth by selling more equipment whether it be to consumers in the form of bowling balls/accessories or proprietors in the form of capital equipment, some of which is invested back into the competitive bowling side of the sport...see above.

As a member, the obvious benefit is more money for programs investing in youth, education, member services, member acquisition/retention, and marketing bowling to the masses.

As for your comment about competitive bowling being better, professionals and amateurs are bowling for less money and fewer tournaments than 10 years ago. We have fewer bowling centers than 10 years ago and the number of competitive bowlers continues to decline along with membership, so I honestly don't know how you can make this statement.

I guess the USBC has convinced everyone that losing members every year for decades is acceptable and there's nothing to be done about it other than raising dues. If the USBC were actually held accountable for results like the rest of the world, they would have been fired long ago for incompetence.

Oh, I almost forgot, I could care less about awards from the USBC, grow the game!

morpheus · « **Reply #85 on:** October 31, 2016, 09:38:25 AM »

Quote from: mainzer on October 31, 2016, 09:14:34 AM

+1 I hear whining but no solutions

Quote from: spmcgivern on October 31, 2016, 08:05:03 AM
I have a question for those who are disappointed with the USBC. What is it specifically you want from USBC? I hear a lot of talk about growing membership and getting more money to USBC, but what is the end result? Do bowlers want to bring back awards? Do bowlers want something else?

I have yet to hear a valid reason to even raise membership. If a bowler is unhappy with USBC, getting more members won't change that. Either you support the path USBC has taken to promote the sport of bowling or you don't. Right now, a lot of what USBC does isn't directly in support of the general membership population. It is for the select few who are good enough reap the benefits of being at the Team USA level.

If that path isn't what you want to promote, then don't be a member. I wouldn't discredit anyone for doing that. But if you like the idea of promoting the competitive side of bowling (men, women and youth), then be a member. I personally like the competitive side of bowling. I don't want it to go away. Can it be better, you bet. But it is better today than it was 10 years ago.

Then you should go back and read the thread, I've made plenty of suggestions.

spmcgivern · « **Reply #86 on:** October 31, 2016, 10:46:42 AM »

I don't feel we should be judging the USBC by how much the PBA events are worth. Or are you suggesting USBC be involved in the marketing of the PBA? Fewer bowling centers are not a direct result of USBC performance, unless you know something I don't. And USBC isn't responsible for the success of bowling ball manufacturers or equipment manufacturers (BPAA?)

I do agree the local associations should be better suited to meet the current demands of its members. I also feel this falls jointly on the local association and the national. Perhaps the national association doesn't relegate local performance enough.

Most of the items you are wanting/desire are only applicable if there are actually more members. Should USBC get more members for the sake of using whatever additional funds that provides to in turn try and get more members? It seems like an endless cycle of only getting more members.

And if history of conversations here are any indication, the programs and uses those additional funds earned by having more members will be criticized just as it is today.

The mission of USBC and their goals are independent of the number of members:

Quote

USBC Mission: The USBC is the National Governing Body for bowling. Our mission is to provide services, resources and standards for the sport.

USBC Vision: To be the leading authority to the sport, servicing the needs of bowling.

USBC Promise: Our promise is to celebrate the past, be mindful of the present and ensure bowlingâ€™s future through thoughtful research, planning and delivery. We will protect and nurture the sport with a mutual admiration and respect for all who enjoy bowling.

So again, I ask, why is it a requirement that USBC have more members?

morpheus · « **Reply #87 on:** October 31, 2016, 11:05:29 AM »

Quote from: spmcgivern on October 31, 2016, 10:46:42 AM

I don't feel we should be judging the USBC by how much the PBA events are worth. Or are you suggesting USBC be involved in the marketing of the PBA? Fewer bowling centers are not a direct result of USBC performance, unless you know something I don't. And USBC isn't responsible for the success of bowling ball manufacturers or equipment manufacturers (BPAA?)

I do agree the local associations should be better suited to meet the current demands of its members. I also feel this falls jointly on the local association and the national. Perhaps the national association doesn't relegate local performance enough.

Most of the items you are wanting/desire are only applicable if there are actually more members. Should USBC get more members for the sake of using whatever additional funds that provides to in turn try and get more members? It seems like an endless cycle of only getting more members.

And if history of conversations here are any indication, the programs and uses those additional funds earned by having more members will be criticized just as it is today.

The mission of USBC and their goals are independent of the number of members:

Quote
USBC Mission: The USBC is the National Governing Body for bowling. Our mission is to provide services, resources and standards for the sport.

USBC Vision: To be the leading authority to the sport, servicing the needs of bowling.

USBC Promise: Our promise is to celebrate the past, be mindful of the present and ensure bowlingâ€™s future through thoughtful research, planning and delivery. We will protect and nurture the sport with a mutual admiration and respect for all who enjoy bowling.

So again, I ask, why is it a requirement that USBC have more members?

You brought up tournament bowling saying it's better than 10 years ago, I merely disputed the fact that it is not whether it be professional or amateur because there is an infinitely smaller pool of people and sponsors to draw from.

The USBC is a membership organization with a fiduciary responsibility to said members and I don't think the current strategy, or lack there of, is in the best interest of membership. If I take your no growth argument to it's logical conclusion, membership continues to decline and the USBC is forced to raise the cost of membership to stay afloat which in turn accelerates decline. At 1 million members, they're receiving 10 million per year which apparently isn't enough to sustain current levels of service so they have another $5 to increase giving them 15 million per year at 1 million members. If membership were 500,000 the USBC portion of dues would have to be $30 per member achieve the same 15 million in revenue and that doesn't even account for lost tournament revenue which at this point is probably generating more than dues. This isn't hard guys, it's common sense and the math doesn't work...the current model is not sustainable.

michelle · « **Reply #88 on:** October 31, 2016, 11:37:12 AM »

Quote from: spmcgivern on October 31, 2016, 08:05:03 AM

But it is better today than it was 10 years ago.

I'm not sure I would agree with that...if anything, I hear MORE complaints about various issues now than I did in my last season (which was, hmm...roughly a decade or so ago).

I don't know what the answer is, but when they aren't doing much to woo bowlers back in (or grow the new-bowler piece of the puzzle), something isn't working in the HQ offices.

Steven · « **Reply #89 on:** October 31, 2016, 12:05:41 PM »

Quote from: morpheus on October 30, 2016, 03:33:05 PM

Unfortunately you're right, nobody at the USBC cares about membership. As I've articulated several times before, the current way the system works is broken, but you and the USBC seem content to just raise dues and let the decline continue. The recent dues increase was to "continue the current level of services" so unless the current grassroots model suddenly starts growing membership, increases will continue on a shrinking pool of members because they can't cut anymore without reduction in services. At this point, the USBC is a charity because without growth in membership, the financial model is only sustainable by increasing dues.

The only organization that can have a practical positive impact on league membership is the BPAA. Why? Because their member business survival is at stake. They need the guaranteed income stream from leagues to pay the bills.

Bowling centers that want to stay profitable make the efforts to reach out their respective communities to market their unique services. That includes schools, churches, summer camps, and special needs organizations. Our local owner has embraced this philosophy and his centers are doing very well. More and more, BPAA members are sharing their success stories to the benefit of all. They're starting to understand that it will happen with them or not at all.

There will always be the cheap lazy centers that don't modernize and reach out to their communities. They will die slow deaths. There is nothing the USBC can do bring new people into those centers, and they wouldn't stay long even if they could.

Local USBC staff are largely older retired people looking for something to do instead of taking too many naps. They're OK (sometimes) at taking care of local administration duties, but to pretend they have the skills or motivation to ever be able to recruit significant new membership is a hallucination. You might be willing to spend more on dues to enable local staff (if that's even possible), but the bread-and-butter mixed league bowler who just wants to have 3 games of fun never will.

Look to the BPAA for your membership salvation. That's the only place it will possibly happen.

spmcgivern · « **Reply #90 on:** October 31, 2016, 12:16:26 PM »

USBC events:

Junior Gold - 2005 had 1,425 participants / 2016 had 3,292 participants
Team USA - 2008 had 103 participants / 2016 had 284 participants
High School Bowling is growing
Collegiate Bowling is growing and has been NCAA for women since 2004
Participation in women's events have increased (at least to the point of capacity, most events are capped and have been because of logistics)

I agree the level of participation in the national tournaments is down. A lot of that does fall on USBC for not keeping the interest in the events as bowlers age. A lot of older people participate, but those under 50 have declined probably the most.

But the growth in youth bowling is exactly what USBC has been trying to get. More youth are participating in bowling in a more competitive environment than ever before. There may be fewer members, but you have lost a lot of the league members who parents used youth bowling as a day care.

Author Topic: I went to the USBC website and saw this.... (Read 24849 times)

xrayjay

I went to the USBC website and saw this....

Good Times Good Times

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

Steven

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

noslouch

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

morpheus

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

morpheus

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

noslouch

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

spmcgivern

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

mainzer

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

morpheus

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

morpheus

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

spmcgivern

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

morpheus

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

michelle

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

Steven

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....

spmcgivern

Re: I went to the USBC website and saw this....