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Author Topic: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon  (Read 15493 times)

BrianCRX90

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Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« on: April 25, 2016, 02:43:30 PM »
Not trying to be a pessimist, but 15 years ago in my area bowling was very popular, to an extent still is but some of the trends are very disturbing to me:

The formation of USBC - thought at the time it would be a good idea to merge ABC/WIBC. After 10 years of this since 2005, I do not see the benefit of merging the two bodies. All I see is increase in fees and for what?

The PBA, a sport 10 years ago was my favorite to watch on tv and attend in person is surviving on a thread. I used to record every show but now...who cares? It's not a real tour anymore, nothing is live except for a couple major events and most of the events are in one city then eventually may have it an another city. Kind of hard to take seriously when the events are not live and not having a tour for everyone to see.

Bowling alleys. What year in your area was the last time a bowling alley was built? Entertainment centers like Main Event or Lucky Strike do not count. These places don't usually have leagues. They cater everything from kids to upper class drinking adults. I counted all the bowling alleys in my area and I came up with 1988 was the last time a bowling alley was built, also every time a bowling alley has been closed down nothing has took it's place.

Also, Brunswick selling their company to Bolmore was probably the nail in the coffin. Brunswick was the best thing to happen to bowling in the 1980's putting alleys everywhere, AMF has always sucked then Bolmore did nothing to improve them not they practically have a monopoly on it. Let's not talk about what Bolmore did to my Brunswick bowling alley's bar.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 02:45:30 PM by BrianCRX90 »

 

spmcgivern

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2016, 12:30:20 PM »
The average age of the bowlers in my 3 leagues is at least 55. When they are done in say 10 years, what happen to the league. As a youth coach, I only see about 20% of the kids moving on to adult leagues. This won't help replace these retiring bowlers.

How many of the bowlers in your league bowled as youth?  I don't think youth league bowling has to be sole source of adult league bowlers. 

I think one area of concern is the expectation of adult league bowling the youth bowler has.  They participate in a sport that is challenging then graduate to a sport that is dumbed down to lowest denominator. Might as well call it "No Adult Bowler Left Behind".

spmcgivern

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2016, 12:44:14 PM »
First and foremost, we need transparency into current financial budgets and the real cost of programs which Mr. Murphy has consistently been unwilling to provide likely because members might not like where dollars are really being spent. The USBC is a membership organization so when they are not transparent with the members they supposedly serve, I'm going to assume they are hiding something.
I am assuming you don't like the annual budget report put out every year?  How much breakdown are you looking for?

1. Is the USBC paying for employees to attend the Open Championships?
I agree in that USBC staff should foot the bill for the Open Championships.  But I assume it is treated much like a sponsorship of which there are many instances at Nationals each year getting some assistance. 
2. How much money is being spent this year to send delegates all expense paid to attend the convention in hopes they will vote yes to an increase? (Mr. Murphy has been asked this question on multiple occasions and declined to answer)
Totally agree.  I don't understand how this type of expense is justified year after year.  My experience has been USBC has never met an all-expense paid meeting they didn't like (food and all).
3. Are they going to sponsor delegates every year or just this year in an attempt to influence the vote?
Afraid it will be foooorrrreeeevvveerrrr.  But we'll see.
4. According to Mr. Murphy, technology costs are the single biggest expense for the organization so how much of that budget is for technology used to support tournaments?
Not sure, but I am guessing the technology in question would only be useful if compatible to operate leagues of all sizes along with tournaments of all sizes.  Similar structure.

Second, if they want more money, outline how the additional funds will be spent, how that translates into growing or retaining membership and who's accountable for the success or failure of these investments. If there were plan in place with accountability, I'd pay $50 a year, but they want membership to pony up more money just because they need it?
To be fair, USBC National didn't request the money.  At the same time, I doubt they didn't provide a nudge of some sort to get it started.  I am just not sure how much I would need to know to feel like it is a viable path to improving the sport.  Problem is, no two people feel the same way.  For every Morpheus or someone else who doesn't like a program, there are others that do.

Third, I think the tournament side of the organization should be a separate organization since it's "self sustaining" and should not be the responsibility of the governing body of the sport.
I am pretty sure the Tournament side helps support the administrative side to some extent.  Separating the two would remove an income stream for the administration.

I realize none of this is going to happen and there will be a steady stream of USBC apologists saying it's only $5, but that really isn't the point.

I get where you are coming from Morpheus and I appreciate the response.  I agree with a lot of what you said and I too don't like a lot of what USBC does.  But without them, I think the sport of bowling will be near extinct.  I instead will support USBC when they deserve it but will also complain when I feel they don't.  There will definitely be some of both.

bradl

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2016, 01:15:04 PM »
The average age of the bowlers in my 3 leagues is at least 55. When they are done in say 10 years, what happen to the league. As a youth coach, I only see about 20% of the kids moving on to adult leagues. This won't help replace these retiring bowlers.

This is going to sound bad as I say it, so bear with me.

I hope they DON'T move on to Adult leagues. I seriously don't.

I say that because if the youth you are coaching are wanting to be competitive, I hope they head up to the Collegiate ranks rather than go straight to adult leagues. In my youth bowling days, if we hadn't had the two Collegiate teams in my area (Nebraska-Lincoln and Nebraska-Omaha) stop in and bowl with us in league that day and tell us/show us what collegiate Bowling was like, none of us would have had the spark or drive to head up to that level and see what some serious competition was like. We all would have headed straight to adult leagues and became the THS bowler that we love to complain about in this forum.

So no. You want replacements for the turnover? You want the future? Get the kids you are coaching prepped for collegiates, see if there is a collegiate team willing to come down and tell them about the environment waiting for them, and light that fire in their bellies so the sport can have a future.

BL.

spmcgivern

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2016, 01:40:50 PM »
bradl,

I agree collegiate bowling is an option once high school is finished.  But only the women's NCAA teams cannot participate in adult leagues.  All club teams can.

milorafferty

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2016, 02:49:49 PM »
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/USBC2014Form990_990T.pdf

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/usbc2014financialstatements-final.pdf

From Bowl.com on where and how the money was spent. Most organizations are not going to give out their current budget. And I don't blame USBC for not publishing the current budget. Knowing bowlers, the complaints would never end on that.
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morpheus

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2016, 03:16:03 PM »
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/USBC2014Form990_990T.pdf

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/usbc2014financialstatements-final.pdf

From Bowl.com on where and how the money was spent. Most organizations are not going to give out their current budget. And I don't blame USBC for not publishing the current budget. Knowing bowlers, the complaints would never end on that.
Again...last time I checked they are a membership organization that works for us so where is the transparency? If they want a raise, open up the books and tell us how you're spending membership dollars.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

milorafferty

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2016, 05:36:40 PM »
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/USBC2014Form990_990T.pdf

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/usbc2014financialstatements-final.pdf

From Bowl.com on where and how the money was spent. Most organizations are not going to give out their current budget. And I don't blame USBC for not publishing the current budget. Knowing bowlers, the complaints would never end on that.
Again...last time I checked they are a membership organization that works for us so where is the transparency? If they want a raise, open up the books and tell us how you're spending membership dollars.

I posted two links that do exactly that.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

morpheus

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2016, 06:22:28 PM »
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/USBC2014Form990_990T.pdf

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/usbc2014financialstatements-final.pdf

From Bowl.com on where and how the money was spent. Most organizations are not going to give out their current budget. And I don't blame USBC for not publishing the current budget. Knowing bowlers, the complaints would never end on that.
Again...last time I checked they are a membership organization that works for us so where is the transparency? If they want a raise, open up the books and tell us how you're spending membership dollars.

I posted two links that do exactly that.

If you actually took the time to read them, you would know those are summarized financial statements and if they have nothing to hide why not share the detail. Mr. Murphy has been asked multiple times for budget level information and has consistently declined to share the information with membership...which by the way are the same people he supposedly works for. If the tournament side of the organization is not being funded by membership dollars, prove it by giving the people funding the non-profit organization the information requested?
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

SG17

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2016, 06:29:12 PM »
Wow, I didn't realize there could be so much hate it so few replies.  The first three replies show how bowling in general is growing beyond what some may realize.  And the last two replies sound like the "get off my lawn" types who see what is going on around them as the defacto case for the entire bowling world.

The only hate I have is double standard that exists in the gender segregation of events. 

I hate that at an association meeting if I or other male dare suggest a mens tournament we get called names.  sexist being only one I can post.  however, at that same meeting the lady that calls us sexist can freely discuss and organize a womens tournament.

I do not begrudge the ladys their tournaments; but it should be ok for a mens only event  to exist as well.

kingsham

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2016, 11:43:07 PM »
The average age of the bowlers in my 3 leagues is at least 55. When they are done in say 10 years, what happen to the league. As a youth coach, I only see about 20% of the kids moving on to adult leagues. This won't help replace these retiring bowlers.

How many of the bowlers in your league bowled as youth?  I don't think youth league bowling has to be sole source of adult league bowlers. 

I think one area of concern is the expectation of adult league bowling the youth bowler has.  They participate in a sport that is challenging then graduate to a sport that is dumbed down to lowest denominator. Might as well call it "No Adult Bowler Left Behind".

Im 24 and only started bowling at the age of 23. A few of the guys that got me into had only started bowling maybe a few months before I did. Only 2 of the guys my age in my summer league bowled as youth. Same for my fall league...a few guys who started late and a few who started young. The thing I like about bowling is you can get into at any age and progress based on how much work you put into it.

Pinbuster

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2016, 06:13:02 AM »
Is bowling going to die or become a niche sport only in large urban areas?

I doubt it.

Will bowling ever achieve the popularity it had starting in the 1950's and running thru the early 1980's?

I doubt this as well.

Having bowled in leagues for over 50 years now I know bowling is not close to it's peak time.

A town of any size had a bowling center of at least 8 lanes. The house ran double shifts of league each evening. There were generally a coffee cup league each morning for the ladies and another league in the afternoon. Larger areas had leagues at 1:00 am for second shift workers.

Open lanes for practice was sometimes hard to come by.

Those days are gone.

ABC/WIBC/AJBC/YBA and now the USBC had very little to do with that explosion of popularity and I believe they have had little to do with its decline.

The cost of dues, in the early 1960's when compared to income was probably higher then than it is now. And since nationally there were only 1000 honor scores shot (with 3 million men members) there were very few awards given out.

The truth was that bowlers wanted to compete an organized environment and the dues were the cost of being able to do that.

The USBC open tournament is a money maker. They have increased tournament expenses from the entry and with bracket money they are more than breaking even. In fact I believe they are subsidizing national operations.

milorafferty

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2016, 09:32:03 AM »
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/USBC2014Form990_990T.pdf

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/usbc2014financialstatements-final.pdf

From Bowl.com on where and how the money was spent. Most organizations are not going to give out their current budget. And I don't blame USBC for not publishing the current budget. Knowing bowlers, the complaints would never end on that.
Again...last time I checked they are a membership organization that works for us so where is the transparency? If they want a raise, open up the books and tell us how you're spending membership dollars.

I posted two links that do exactly that.

If you actually took the time to read them, you would know those are summarized financial statements and if they have nothing to hide why not share the detail. Mr. Murphy has been asked multiple times for budget level information and has consistently declined to share the information with membership...which by the way are the same people he supposedly works for. If the tournament side of the organization is not being funded by membership dollars, prove it by giving the people funding the non-profit organization the information requested?

I took the time to read them. I don't need to know the "details" of every dollar spent. But then again, I'm not obsessing over finding a reason to bitch about every thing USBC does either.

Have a nice day.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

morpheus

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2016, 10:33:38 AM »
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/USBC2014Form990_990T.pdf

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/usbc2014financialstatements-final.pdf

From Bowl.com on where and how the money was spent. Most organizations are not going to give out their current budget. And I don't blame USBC for not publishing the current budget. Knowing bowlers, the complaints would never end on that.
Again...last time I checked they are a membership organization that works for us so where is the transparency? If they want a raise, open up the books and tell us how you're spending membership dollars.

I posted two links that do exactly that.

If you actually took the time to read them, you would know those are summarized financial statements and if they have nothing to hide why not share the detail. Mr. Murphy has been asked multiple times for budget level information and has consistently declined to share the information with membership...which by the way are the same people he supposedly works for. If the tournament side of the organization is not being funded by membership dollars, prove it by giving the people funding the non-profit organization the information requested?

I took the time to read them. I don't need to know the "details" of every dollar spent. But then again, I'm not obsessing over finding a reason to bitch about every thing USBC does either.

Have a nice day.

I think the USBC should be accountable to membership and that's not happening. You obviously think they are doing a tremendous job to just give them money with no plan or accountability. That philosophy has gotten us to 1.7 million members and falling...the definition of insanity comes to mind.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

milorafferty

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2016, 10:44:50 AM »
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/USBC2014Form990_990T.pdf

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/aboutusbc/pdfs/usbc2014financialstatements-final.pdf

From Bowl.com on where and how the money was spent. Most organizations are not going to give out their current budget. And I don't blame USBC for not publishing the current budget. Knowing bowlers, the complaints would never end on that.
Again...last time I checked they are a membership organization that works for us so where is the transparency? If they want a raise, open up the books and tell us how you're spending membership dollars.

I posted two links that do exactly that.

If you actually took the time to read them, you would know those are summarized financial statements and if they have nothing to hide why not share the detail. Mr. Murphy has been asked multiple times for budget level information and has consistently declined to share the information with membership...which by the way are the same people he supposedly works for. If the tournament side of the organization is not being funded by membership dollars, prove it by giving the people funding the non-profit organization the information requested?

I took the time to read them. I don't need to know the "details" of every dollar spent. But then again, I'm not obsessing over finding a reason to bitch about every thing USBC does either.

Have a nice day.

I think the USBC should be accountable to membership and that's not happening. You obviously think they are doing a tremendous job to just give them money with no plan or accountability. That philosophy has gotten us to 1.7 million members and falling...the definition of insanity comes to mind.

You are reading a lot into what I think. Here is what I actually think, USBC could and should be doing a better job. What should they do differently? I have no idea, but spending money to provide details to people who just want to grind on the minutia and bitch would be a huge waste.  The financials are available for anyone who wants to review them.

Perhaps you should take up a different sport if the governing body of bowling upsets you so much.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

spmcgivern

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Re: Is bowling going to be R.I.P. soon
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2016, 10:57:32 AM »
Morpheus,

Which section/part of the financial statement do you want more detail on?  I don't see how the current financial statement is severely lacking. 

It comes across like you think USBC is trying to decrease membership and trying to throw money down the drain.  No matter what they do, someone will be against it.