win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling  (Read 34842 times)

Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« on: March 04, 2013, 07:49:05 AM »
I recently wrote a letter to USBC concerning my opinions on the current state of bowling that I thought I'd share with everyone.  I actually got a response, and just about word for word what I expected, but at least an actual human read my letter and replied.  Here is the letter, their response, and then I'll finish up:

This is an open letter to whom it may concern reflecting my opinions and comments regarding the state of bowling as a whole as well as a widely perceived view on how the USBC is only serving to further destroy the sport so many of us love and have already begun to mourn.  I will however begin by saying that the USBC Open Championships represents everything that is right with the sport of bowling.  The challenge, the venues, the organization, the execution, the resources, etc., every part of "Nationals" is so expertly crafted that even some of the best bowlers in the world make a point to come compete.  That, unfortunately, is where it ends, and could one day be lost as bowling as a whole continues to decline.  It is incredibly irresponsible of USBC to be so out of touch with league bowling, the very foundation of the sport.  I read a published article regarding fresh oil for every squad at the 2013 Open Championships, finally correcting the only problem I believe the event had.  It referenced a quote from someone regarding having one pattern for the team event and a different pattern for singles and doubles, effectively saying that USBC wanted to challenge their bowlers' versatility.  I found it to be one of the most hypocritical statements or comments I have ever come across.  USBC's specifications and limits regarding legal lane conditions are so wide open that thousands of league bowlers who never practice can show up to league once a week, shoot 750 with the only ball they own, and go home without so much as a thought.  These are the same people that post 230+ averages during the league season, only to show up to the Open Championships to shoot 1500 for all events, and go home with their tails between their legs.  The idea that making tighter restrictions on lane conditions would only serve to further drive away bowlers and hurt revenue for center owners is ludicrous, as USBC membership has fallen from approximately 9 million to 1.7 million in a little over a decade, corresponding with ever increasing numbers of "honor scores" and member averages.  When scoring was harder, people spent money practicing, centers were full for early AND late leagues every night of the week.  This has made the future for our youth bowlers dismal, and has driven away the majority of the truly skilled bowlers.  The quality of coaches has declined, combined with the fact that it's impossible to convince a kid they made a bad shot even though they struck.  If youth bowlers are putting up numbers on easy shots, they believe they are good, and become hard to coach.  Then when they start competing in Junior Gold or PBA Experience leagues, they become discouraged fast, and when they are ready to be coached, more often than not, their game has to be completely torn down and rebuilt.  There was a youth in my city recently who shot his "first" 800.  He is not skilled, and not accurate.  He is a no thumb bowler who simply throws a lot of revs and a lot of speed, and on a legal USBC pattern, all he really has to do is keep the ball right of the headpin to strike.  This past summer, he, like a lot of the city high school bowlers, joined our summer PBA Experience league.  He proceeded to shoot 354 for the entire 3 game set the first night of league on the Cheetah pattern, following which he packed up his equipment and never came back.  This is the kind of bowler the USBC is creating.  I used to believe my "accomplishments" were earned and worth something, now I realize they aren't worth any more than the metal the rings are made out of, which is in fact so cheap that they are impossible to resize.  All my work, my effort, what I've learned, it's all meaningless.  I have been a pro shop operator for 7 years now, and I would consider my knowledge, experience, and skill to be very high, yet the process of selecting a ball, watching the bowler, and crafting a layout and surface prep for most USBC sanctioned lane conditions is needless.  I can pick any ball off the wall, "label" drill it, never touch the surface, put holes in it, and whoever I drill it for will be "successful."  People in their 60's and 70's are reaching scores they have never seen before.  It's more surprising to hear that someone has NOT achieved "perfection" now than to hear that they have.  USBC is supposed to be the governing body for sanctioned competition, but all it serves to do is drive people elsewhere for real competition or real challenge.  Bowling is no longer a sport, or even a game, it is a recreation, where people gather in attempts to record obscene numbers or merely occupy them while they drink and socialize.  Any activity that requires zero practice and little effort to achieve "perfection" will eventually cease to exist.  I have put my life into bowling, and in turn it nearly became my life, but no longer.  I am ashamed to be a USBC member, and to be associated with the laughingstock that this recreation of sanctioned bowling has become.  The amount of money and time that has to be put into obtaining "available" coaching certifications, or to attend "available" tournaments or events is staggering, and the opportunity to prepare for these things doesn't exist for most of us.  The USBC is turning a blind, uncaring, ignorant eye to the most important things in bowling, while raising sanction fees at the same time.  Charging me admission to view the destruction of a sport I have put my life into is unacceptable.  For the first time in several years, I will not attend the Open Championships, simply because I have zero opportunities to practice on tougher conditions to prepare in the months leading up to the tournament.  The attitude the USBC has towards the sport is wholly irresponsible.  I can serve my kids cake for supper, but make vegetables available, which do you think they will choose?  Bowling is not on the rise, it continues to fall, and the focus and effort is completely in the wrong direction.  Making coaching and affordable equipment available and teaching a golfer how to putt makes little difference if the greens they play on funnel down towards the hole.  The USBC is singularly to blame for the current state of bowling, and it disgusts me.  Thank you for your time.

The response:
I appreciate your feedback and your membership. Your email illustrates a challenging issue the industry faces. USBC’s role in controlling lane conditions are a controversial subject and one that draws out many strong opinions. While you make a good argument for a mandating lower scoring lane conditions, there are enforcement and compliance challenges on the other side. USBC’s Sport Bowling program attempts to provide an option for those bowlers/centers who want the challenge you seek. I realize this is not a perfect solution as many communities do not have a center that offers Sport Bowling leagues.

 

I respect your passion for the sport and have no doubt your opinions come from a desire to improve bowling. I do want to clarify your implication that USBC has been raising dues. USBC national dues are $10 and have not increased since 2006.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write.

 

Best regards,

Jason Overstreet

USBC Communications


First of all regarding the league dues, a few years ago our dues rose from $15 to $17, apparently our local association raised their fee and blamed it on USBC, so I wasn't very happy about that, I definitely would not have stuck that in my letter if I'd have known.  The point of the letter wasn't to throw USBC under the bus, but this is honestly the way I believe it is.  I knew I would get something back about the challenges of enforcement, but here's the deal.  The USBC let it get out of control years ago when they were more concerned about an ounce of sideweight in a ball than about the ball itself, or about regulating the oil patterns.  The PBA figured this out 15 or more years ago, why didn't the USBC?  So maybe the current people in power at the USBC didn't have anything to do with it, but the organization itself is completely responsible.  Regarding the challenges though, as I said in the letter, I've worked in the bowling industry for 7 years now, I very well understand all the challenges and issues, I'm not just writing the letter crying about things without having a very knowledgeable and objective viewpoint.  Honestly though, they're going to have to do something, and here's the real point of contention.  Center owners will fight tougher conditions because they think they'll lose business.  Well, they have already lost business for years.  A real simple solution here, make conditions tougher for the sanctioned leagues.  If you don't want a tougher shot, don't bowl a sanctioned league.  What does sanctioning really do for you?  Gives you some trinkets, and allows you to use your average in tournaments for potential handicap.  People wouldn't quit bowling if they were told their league wouldn't be sanctioned, they would see it as a way to save fees every year.  Most people don't bowl tournaments anymore.  But of course, this would really hurt the USBC.  So instead of really governing the sport and enforcing the rules, they're content to just let things slip away while they say, "oh, well we offer a bunch of stuff."  Rant off. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

 

JOE FALCO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6298
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2013, 07:32:05 PM »
Quote
I will be making my 21st trip to the Open Championships in May and looking forward to it.

Curious: What state do you reside?
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

six pack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2799
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2013, 08:27:42 PM »
The problem is bowling needs as many people as possible, not as few people as possible.  You change leagues to USBC Open conditions or anything close to that and you'll have saved the "sport" of bowling while killing the activity that is bowling.

Part of the "problem" people have is that not everybody is interested in the "sport" of bowling.  The vast majority of bowlers are just there to have fun and socialize.  Bowling is barely getting by with them...what do you plan to do if you drive those people away?

I'm all for tougher lane conditions, but I can't even get them to have 1 sport league anywhere near me other than in the summer.  When they had one in the summer, 2 other people showed up besides me. 

Bingo!
 my team is full of posers and we were in first for many weeks until the house changed the shot to a longer flat pattern.I enjoyed the tougher shot and bowled just as well but nedless to say we have droped 10 places in two weeks and I get to listen to all the crying. my team for the most part does not want to practice and buy new equipment or learn a b game and its sad to watch.you make the shot harder and I think only 10% would retrn next season.
The harder I try the harder they fall

spmcgivern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2079
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2013, 07:23:46 AM »
I know I stated a 6:1 ratio, but that has become the supposed shot that will "fix" bowling in this thread.  It was only intended as an example.  But I will say this, I think the 15:1 shot (or whatever it is) that many proprietors feel is the best for high scores actually is not the best shot for scoring.  A flatter shot, not flat shot, would be more beneficial for the average bowler than the wet/dry crap that is put out now.  Today's equipment doesn't need free hook.  Having the oil cliff on the left and right only makes the equipment today overreact.  Heaven forbid bowlers use the correct equipment for the shot.  Last night I saw a very good bowler with regional wins throw the wrong ball all night.  He just had to use his brand new Sync.  Saw another prominent touring pro struggle with over under.  Today's house shot is a joke, and not a high scoring joke, but a "who the hell developed this shot" joke.

D Scott Johnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2013, 07:50:35 AM »
TX Bowler  --  I agree about the tier comment moving up.  You are right.  Before my Dad died he was always impressed with the scores I shot.  I would always tell him that it really isn't a lot better that the scores he shot in his day.  He averaged 195 in a day that 200 was only in the reach of the very, very elite.  I would tell him that his 195 was great and that we can't compare eras because of equipment and conditions.

Joe  --  I live in Indiana.

Giz  --  I enjoy the venue at Reno, but the town itself has gone down dramatically since we first started going there years ago and frankly, isn't much fun in the town.  But, like you, I do enjoy bowling at the NBS.

We can't go back on the equipment and scoring, that is true.  But, centers can make the shots competitive.

Two points:  Last year in our PBA Experience League, we had one of the local high school coaches sub in the league.  He proceeded to shoot 602 for 4 games.  On his way out he said, "I won't be back to sub in this league until they put out a scorable shot, this is unfair."  Unfortunately, he is "leading" one of our youth programs.  I tell everyone who bowls in the league that they can expect there average to dip 10 to 15 percent.

I always hate to use golf analogies, but they do seem to work.  Whenever I hear people whining about a tough condition or not going to the USBC because the "shot sucks" and they play golf, I always ask them if they would be interested in playing Pebble Beach Country Club?  From the good golfers to the poorest of golfers, they immediately say "yes".  But, I remind them, that is going to be a tough course?  That's ok.  You probably won't shoot what you do at your favorite public links course?  That's ok.  Are you going to complain that that sandtrap was unfairly placed, or the cup was at an impossible location, or who put that ocean next to the fairway, what were they thinking?  Really, so why do you refuse to take the bowling challenge and bowl on tough conditions?

Scott

Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2013, 08:35:34 AM »
A lot of people have problems with the golf to bowling analogies, but I think they work because some things are so similar, and some are so different.  Whenever I look at the layout card for the next hole in golf and see sandtraps on either side of the fairway at about 250-275, it always makes me smile, not get agitated.  That distance is going to be right in everyone's wheelhouse.  I can hit 300, but it needs to be a really good shot, if I don't quite catch it, I'll be in trouble.  I appreciate that in bowling too, I find it refreshing to have a challenge, I love whenever the US Open pattern rolls around in our PBA league. 

To six pack, and joe cool, you're absolutely right . . but the problem is that the USBC get to that.  Back 30 years ago, it was just tough for everyone period, that was the nature of the game, but because people were used to shooting 160s and 170s, that's just how it went.  Yes, to change everything now and take a step back would definitely make people quit . . but according to the numbers, 7.3 million people have already quit in the last 15 years.  What else could you attribute that to?  At some point you have to rip off the bandaid, at some point you have to take a step back to take a step forward, and like I said before, who would you really be losing here?  The people that would be gone at the first sign of trouble anyway.  And I'm not necessarily saying they should make it super tough again, but how do you return the integrity? 

We have a scratch league in town, and there have been discussions about making the shot tougher, but the counter argument is always, "well we are supposed to be the best bowlers in town, we've got to have high scores."  My argument is that if we have such high scores, and bowlers being bowlers, the league won't grow because everyone will be scared off.  I'm just tired of everyone wanting to be a casual bowler and a serious bowler at the same time.  Bowling has royally screwed itself, they will continue to lose people if they don't make a change, and will lose people if they do make a change, but the question is, what group of people is more important? 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Joe Cool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2013, 09:25:09 AM »
To six pack, and joe cool, you're absolutely right . . but the problem is that the USBC get to that.  Back 30 years ago, it was just tough for everyone period, that was the nature of the game, but because people were used to shooting 160s and 170s, that's just how it went.  Yes, to change everything now and take a step back would definitely make people quit . . but according to the numbers, 7.3 million people have already quit in the last 15 years.  What else could you attribute that to?  At some point you have to rip off the bandaid, at some point you have to take a step back to take a step forward, and like I said before, who would you really be losing here?  The people that would be gone at the first sign of trouble anyway.  And I'm not necessarily saying they should make it super tough again, but how do you return the integrity? 


You can't "return the integrity" because everyone's definition of integrity is different.  There are far more bowlers that are either okay with everything the way it is or don't care enough either way and just want to show up and bowl.  The ball companies are fine with things the way they are.  BPAA seems okay with things the way they are.  Who do you think is going to carry enough clout to actually bring about change?

Your solution seems to be who cares if we lose x number of people because we're going to lose people anyway, but at least we'll please the "core" bowlers - the people you're interested in keeping, correct?.  I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.
Hit the pocket and hope for the best

Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2013, 10:31:50 AM »
To six pack, and joe cool, you're absolutely right . . but the problem is that the USBC get to that.  Back 30 years ago, it was just tough for everyone period, that was the nature of the game, but because people were used to shooting 160s and 170s, that's just how it went.  Yes, to change everything now and take a step back would definitely make people quit . . but according to the numbers, 7.3 million people have already quit in the last 15 years.  What else could you attribute that to?  At some point you have to rip off the bandaid, at some point you have to take a step back to take a step forward, and like I said before, who would you really be losing here?  The people that would be gone at the first sign of trouble anyway.  And I'm not necessarily saying they should make it super tough again, but how do you return the integrity? 


You can't "return the integrity" because everyone's definition of integrity is different.  There are far more bowlers that are either okay with everything the way it is or don't care enough either way and just want to show up and bowl.  The ball companies are fine with things the way they are.  BPAA seems okay with things the way they are.  Who do you think is going to carry enough clout to actually bring about change?

Your solution seems to be who cares if we lose x number of people because we're going to lose people anyway, but at least we'll please the "core" bowlers - the people you're interested in keeping, correct?.  I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

In essence, yes, you're following what I'm saying, and you make several good points.  I don't necessarily like it, but you're correct, and I understand very well what you're saying.  What I would call integrity is making it more difficult so that "perfect games" aren't so common, and return averages to a respectable number.  It's super deflating, depressing, and occasionally insulting to see that all the work, effort, knowledge, and skill that I've put in and developed for myself is at least at the league level worthless.  Now, when we go to tournaments out of town (specifically sport shot tournaments), I still have success, but that's a very infrequent occasion (tournaments).  Putting in effort, practicing, buying equipment, etc., is really pretty needless, because you're either going to carry or you're not, hitting the pocket when you have 10 boards worth of area is not a challenge in my opinion.  You're either subject to a carry contest in a higher average league, or handicap run wild in a regular league. 

The bowlers who are currently in the sport are the new generation of people who crave instant gratification with the least amount of effort possible.  There are more true competitive bowlers who have either died or left the sport out of the 7.3 million than there are casual bowlers, I'd wager to guess.  The ball companies are ok, because the majority of the general public subscribes to the false idea that it has to do more with the equipment than the bowler, and is only echoed by watching the pros on tv, at least to those who don't really get the concept.  So rather than practice, people will think they just need a different ball.  The BPAA is in panic mode.  They are losing people in record numbers and are focused on keeping the people they have, not getting new bowlers or old bowlers back.  You are absolutely correct, people with my opinions are the minority, and the minority will not affect change.

My solution is not a good one, it's a lesser of two evils (like many of our recent presidential elections).  Bowling will continue to lose people, and it's not about pleasing people, it's about retaining the people needed to rebuild this sport.  It's going to eventually get down to the casual bowlers, and once the next recession hits, or another economical plunge happens, the casual bowlers will dump bowling instantly, while the hardcore bowlers will do that only as a last resort.  You don't have to average 230 to be hardcore or competitive, and I'm not saying that we should dump all the casual bowlers or that they aren't important, because they are, everyone is important, but it's just like anything else.  If a company has to lay people off, who would you rather lay off?  The experienced hard workers, or the guys just there collecting a paycheck? 

What I'm REALLY saying, is that bowling is not far from completely hitting rock bottom.  Casual bowlers have easy success and get bored fast, I've seen a lot quit, because it's not fun to shoot 230 and feel like you figured something out to turn around and shoot 160 because in all reality, they aren't any better than that.  I've seen a lot of high level bowlers quit because it's become a carry contest, and why try to be good when somebody else with no clue can occasionally shoot big numbers too?  10 or 15 years ago, skill got you somewhere, skill meant you scored better, skill meant you won more, now it means nothing, either because of over aggressive handicap or walled up shots.  There's zero education, there's zero coaching ESPECIALLY for adults, because there's no coaches walking around adult leagues like there is in most youth leagues.  Also as I've said before, once people taste a little success, they think that qualifies them to "teach" other people.  Then you get people with bad information passing that bad information on, and when someone comes in the shop and says "well, a friend of mine told me that drilling a ball pin down was bad because he had this one ball that was pin down and he didn't like it," we are instantly handcuffed.  Because if we tell them their 150 average friend is wrong, it's an insult to them and their friend, so we either lose a customer or are pigeonholed into a small range of drilling options for them.  That customer will then pick out a ball and pick out a layout without a clue in their head what they're doing, and we are instantly in a catch 22.  If they don't do well with the ball, we get blamed.  "Well I paid 200 bucks for this ball, it should work." 

The majority of the bowlers out there are unskilled, ignorant, prideful, and stubborn.  The higher the scores get, the more handcuffed I get as a pro shop operator, the more resistant they get to coaching, and the more volatile they become.  When things don't work out, it's not their fault, it's something else, and eventually they quit.  I've had a front row seat for years, have dealt with these people for years, and have seen center after center in our town close, while late leagues and pot bowling and tournament participation disappears, and it's all tied to score inflation.  We had an annual tournament here in town that was recently axed because of lack of participation.  Reason?  The winner of the tournament for the last 7 consecutive years averaged no less than 256 for 9 games, the CASH line for a tournament that typically had a couple hundred entrants was never any lower than a 230 average, and handicap was 90% of 220.  Balls get better, oil patterns get easier, scores go up, participation goes down, simple equation. 

But at the end of the day, you're right.  Bowling will continue to decline though, as these problems are exacerbated by the actions of the majority in control.  Any attempt to "save it," (as has been proved by Hammer's ill fated, and ultimately unsuccessful attempt) will need to be a drastic, hard and fast fix, and IF an attempt were to be seriously made, this is my opinion on how it would have to be done. 

Hammer's brand manager Jeff Ussery actually started the pro shop I've worked in, he used to be my "pro shop guy."  He had a sit down a while back with the guy that owns the shop currently (they bowled together for KU), and discussed a few things.  The owner of my shop doesn't bowl anymore, my shop manager doesn't bowl anymore, and half the employees of the rest of our 6 total shops don't bowl anymore (I wouldn't be bowling this year if my wife hadn't talked me into it, for that matter).  These are all high level, successful bowlers.  Reason?  Scoring pace.  The group of true competitive bowlers is getting smaller and smaller, and when the only option is to deal with a complete lack of attention to your situation or quit, it's logically smarter to just cut your losses and walk away from a losing battle. 

So my real issue here is that the entire industry is turning its back on its "core" bowlers, or the ones who care the most and have been here, even through the fall of the sport, in favor of the casual bowler, most of whom are only bowling because it's cold outside . . Sorry for the rant/rambling, I'm just trying to make my opinions or position as clear as possible.  I suppose that honestly I'm a little burnt by the complete indifference of the industry to the very people who have most consistently supported them for the last several decades.  It's not that I want all bowlers and everyone to be competitive or forced to bowl on soul crushingly difficult shots, I just want the opportunity to be able to, and because of the group they've chosen to cater to, it's not possible.  We had to fight and fight and fight to even get a PBA league during the summer, and I don't really like being inside all summer, or bowling year 'round, but it's what I have to do to support it, or that will disappear too.  My options are either bowl on a house shot in a handicap league, or bowl in the one single scratch league in town, that also happens to be on a house shot, where the highest speed and rev rate dominates, and the difference between a win and a loss is more often than not who gets screwed by the stone 9 or ring 10. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2013, 11:00:57 AM »
To the poster that asked about Pebble Beach.  I know some friends who have played that course.  So I asked them last night.  Would you like to play golf on that type of course every time.  All golf courses that hard (even if beautiful)?

Without missing a beat, both of them said "Hell no.  We found out how bad we really are."  They'd quit playing if it was that hard every time.  Sound familiar?  Bowlers will quit if you mandate tougher conditions.

So, let's also realize that we are only talking about top tier bowlers. 

I believe that most of the bowlers who average over 200, want to "think" they are
good.  Just like golfers, when sitting around with co-workers, on Monday at the
break room, "oh, you golf, what do you shoot?, I shot, 74 this weekend".  They don't tell you they were playing from the ladies tees at the local muni course.

Same conversation with bowlers.  "Oh, you bowl.  What's your average? "

All they care about is that they can say 200+ or 210+ etc.

The percentage that really can bowl and wants to challenge themselves is really really small.  Probably 20,000-30,000 bowlers nationwide

And it's the same way in golf.  How many weekend hacks, voluntarily play from the black tees (tips) every time?  Again, a very, very, very small percentage.

I understand that we need to find ways to get youth interested in bowling, and to get the youth to accept coaching.  But mandating tougher shots is not going to happen in my opinion. 

You have to find another way to break through the ego.  That's the true problem in my opinion.  If you can figure that out, you will solve the true problem.





Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2013, 11:15:46 AM »
I agree, txbowler.  Good points.  The only thing I would argue is the mandating tougher shots.  Any sanctioned, legal competition needs integrity, and fair play.  Being that there are rewards for "honor scores" it seems that it would be inconsistent to allow easier shots that make it easier for less skilled bowlers to achieve these so-called milestones.  I believe that the difficulty is still too easy, even for casual bowlers in legal sanctioned competition.  There needs to be a line drawn, or an official legal pattern determined.  Even if they make harder shots available, you're dead on about egos, people will get frustrated if lower skilled bowlers are popping in 300's while they're struggling to shoot 230 . . and perception does play a factor.  Me being a pro shop guy, if I'm averaging 205 or 210 on a tough shot while somebody else who doesn't get the difference is averaging 220 on an easier shot, why are they going to listen to me or anything I have to say?  I definitely agree with what you said about the reality of the situation . . but tougher shots and integrity will return in one way or another, or the sport will flat disappear, or at the very least USBC as a governing body will cease to exist and there will no longer be sanctioning.  I think that's the one "special provision" in what I'm saying, that if it's going to be sanctioned competition with rewards and averages that qualify them for sanctioned tournaments, there needs to be a higher level of difficulty.  But back to your point, no, it's probably not going to happen . .
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 11:52:25 AM »
Great points DP3.  High scoring has always been the straw man that critics shoot at when pointing to the demise of the game.  Bowling has always been viewed as recreation more than competition by the vast majority of bowlers, even those in league.  What has happened with bowling is that more and more participants are choosing to treat it as recreation rather than competition, just as they do golf.  That means declines in USBC membership and league competition. 

I would say this.  I dont believe tightening up the conditions to challenge those who do view the game cometitively would drive away people from league.  Fortunately in those states and areas that do have strong programs for juniors, the lane environment is such that it promotes the devepment of versatility 

spmcgivern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2079
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 12:01:34 PM »
I am glad someone has brought up the youth issue.  As with anything, the youth are the future, especially with bowling.  It makes sense to me the transition from youth bowling to adult bowling shouldn't be a big deal.  When the youth make the move up, it should feel similar as far as individual bowling is concerned.  Of course the competition is greater, but the game shouldn't change. 

In my area of Houston, TX, high school bowling is doing quite well, and this is with more demanding bowling conditions.  The competitive bowling environment is as good as it was when I was a youth in the 80s.  The one place where bowling has declined for the youth is in the league bowling.  Competitive bowling increased, casual bowling decreased.  This tells me the youth WANT to be challenged.  They WANT more difficult shots.  And yet when they graduate to the "adult" leagues, they get an "I don't care attitude".  They get complaining, bickering and drama.  No wonder they have no interest in the sport of bowling.

Youth bowling is the future.  And it should be what we adults model our sport from.  All you have to do is see the increase in competitive participation in the youth (including college bowling where EVERY tournament is on a sport shot) to see what the youth want out of the sport.

I am not saying bowling should use sport shots for every league.  But something has to be done.  And if anyone feels changing the conditions is not the way to boost members (or not continue the decrease of members), then what is the solution?  Many people have stated the shot is part of the problem, but what else can be done?  If we, the passionate ones, don't do something, where will we be in 10 years.  At its current pace, all we will have is Glow Bowl (BPAA) and maybe Team USA (USBC).  Nothing in between.

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 12:34:46 PM »
Solution to the problem, USBC should get its act together a have a required pattern for youth bowling. It doesn't have to be SPORT shot but it should be closer to a SPORT pattern than a House Pattern. Get them bowling on tougher conditions. Trust me, they will want it that way when they move into adult leagues. Change the mindset of the youth bowler. They are the future.

Most adult league bowlers today have no desire to improve. They like throwing their occassional 200 game and feel nice and warm about it. So let them stay in their cozy environment! You might reach some of them, but most are too far set in their ways and have too much of an ego to let their average drop.

What I don't understand is why most think the 140 - 170 average bowler would be against this. If anything a SPORT condition levels the playing field. Anyone throwing a plastic ball straight is not going to affected by an oil pattern as much as someone trying to cover boards. I really think the most complainers would be in the 180 - 220 range.
Talkin' Trash!

sdbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4066
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2013, 01:06:03 PM »
I admit I did not read everything here. There are a lot of issues right now with why bowling is declining. Yes lane conditions are one of them. The centers are stuck in a hard place right now. Per USBC they need to meet the legal requirements there. Now most league bowlers want their ball to hit the pocket no matter how bad they throw it. Tug it in and watch it hold or push it wide and watch it come back. The second many centers start to put a shot out that you actually have to his to many league bowlers complain. All it is now is put an oil pattern out to allow the bowler to get to the pocket. From there hope you carry.
I use to work for a center and when we tried to put out a little tougher pattern. We had a lot of complaints about it. The funny thing about that was the shot was not that much tougher. All you had to do was just play a little tighter line. There was not as much of a bounce area and that pissed people off. So now bowling is in an area of what to do. Growing up there was a center in town that you had to work to get a 300, last season that center had around 80 300's. Something needs to be done to slow this outrageous scoring pattern down. This season I think they have had around 60 already.
I think it needs to go back to importance on shot making. I admit I am normally around a 200 avg bowler, nothing great nothing special about me. This season for the 8 weeks I have bowled I am around 210 and that is not even trying or giving a damn about my game. I just go and toss the ball and socialize. I use to bowl a lot of tournaments back many years ago. I stopped due to it became a carry contest just like leagues are now.
Ball companies keep putting out this equipment that is suppose to be better and better every year. Between the cover stocks and weight blocks they have advanced so far. I said a few years ago that maybe ball companies need to adjust what they are putting out. Some how find a way to slow down weight blocks and cover stocks. I don't know how but just an idea.
I have heard a few people bring up using heavier pins. The problem is how the hell would every center in the country get them all at the same time? Many centers are struggling to get by right now. Then to get new pins on top would kill them.
I think there are answers out there to help slowly improve things. The issues is how and when. Everyone is going to say now is the time. But do you just take a big step and make major changes or would you do a little in one season then more in another season and so on?

Gizmo823

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 01:13:20 PM »
Yeah, the majority of the complainers would be the people whose averages are affected the most.  Your 150 averages wouldn't lose much if anything, while the 230 averages would be brought back closer to where they belong.  But I will say about the youth patterns being made tougher, a lot of them have it the same way as the adults with the egos and attitudes.  The parents of high school kids around here flip out whenever the lanes aren't run right before their kids practice because they want their kids to "practice on what they're going to be bowling on" and worry so much about score it's ridiculous.  One moron idiot of a parent actually went to the AD of a school when his stepson, who is the two hander I talked about earlier, was declared ineligible for this year for bowling because his grades were too low.  He demanded that the AD let him bowl, because, and I quote, "When he graduates, he's headed straight to the PBA!  He doesn't need that gpa for anything!"  This kid slaps off every shot, and throws tantrums when he doesn't strike, and I mean on like every single shot. 

HOWEVER, unlike the adults, the kids wouldn't quit.  They would adapt, adjust, and honestly, a lot of them really wouldn't know the difference.  If they were brought up on something, that would be the norm, they wouldn't know anything different, and that's the only barrier that stands in the way of changing things is that it's gotten out of control already.  Lot easier to keep the pig in the pen than to catch it when it gets out. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

MI 2 AZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8152
Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2013, 01:52:36 PM »

What I don't understand is why most think the 140 - 170 average bowler would be against this. If anything a SPORT condition levels the playing field. Anyone throwing a plastic ball straight is not going to affected by an oil pattern as much as someone trying to cover boards. I really think the most complainers would be in the 180 - 220 range.

In the past few years when we had a sport league in our local center, that was the case.  Most of the participants were in the 140-180 range.  Very few in the 200-220 range.  This year there were not enough interested in starting the sport league so it was cancelled.

_________________________________________
Six decades of league bowling and still learning.

ABC/USBC Lifetime Member since Aug 1995.