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Author Topic: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?  (Read 16905 times)

Neptune66

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longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« on: April 14, 2017, 01:29:16 AM »
Been struggling all season with changed house shot, and tonight learned from fellow bowler that the shot is 40 feet [of oil] compared  to 38 feet for most house shots?

I don't know if any of that is true (that 38 is the norm or that the shot at this house is now 40), but presuming it is... am hoping I can use this knowledge to my advantage in determining best ball to at least start with in next week's roll-off for the championship.

Is understood that there are a zillion variables to consider, but I'll describe my delivery type and maybe someone can give me an opinion base don that.

Have relatively low revs, but decent speed, and normally prefer aggressive balls with a skid-flip type reaction. This year, though, nothing seemed to work consistently (not that I am THAT consistent anyway) and until now, had no idea exactly what the pattern was or what part of it I was trying to overcome.

And not expecting anyone to say used ball such and such and it will be magic---or that I will.  Just hoping for a little guidance on what TYPE ball would be best for relatively normal house pattern, but with an additional 2 feet of oil.

Not looking to buy a new ball right now, either, and have 30+ balls of various types and vintages.  But maybe someone can suggest that a weaker skid-flip or more aggressive arcing ball, or pin-up vs pin down would be more effective.

Thanks.

 

psycaz

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 09:01:09 AM »
You may wish to post some additional information to make informed easier to offer sugggestions.

What part of the lane would you prefer to play?

What balls have you tried and how did they react as opposed to what you were expecting.

It could be something as simple as surface change on something you already own.

six pack

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 09:20:43 AM »
what balls gave you your best look? what balls did you not have success with? cover's,cover prep,cores,layouts? what's your A game? do you have a B game and maybe even a C game?
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avabob

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2017, 10:41:38 AM »
Ate your struggles more with carry, or with hitting the pocket. 

Neptune66

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2017, 11:27:34 AM »
Am trying to reply to all 3 of the responses so far as best I can:

Am right-handed and generally throw between 1st and 2nd arrow.  Mostly a down and in motion (lack of revs), but lately have been standing left of the center of the lane and rolling out to around 5th-8th board (just estimating... as I am not what you'd consider a precision bowler). 

It's not so much the motion of the balls or how much or how little they're moving. It's a matter of unpredictability.  The point at which the ball is coming out of it's skid and starting it's roll (if it even IS rolling  :)) is what's frustrating.

Cannot string anything together.  Sometimes is a carry issue, but mostly its the unpredictability of WHEN the ball will change direction. Will throw 2 or 3 beautiful shots right to the pocket and then suddenly I am way over or under on the next one.

Last night used a Storm Sky-Rocket, and resisted changing as I had bowled out of my mind with it the week before on the same lanes, although it was only practice. 

Have also used Track Paradox, and various older balls: Hammer Anger (so far the best reaction, but was small sample size), Storm Xtreme, Track 607A, Track Solution, Hammer Legacy (black), and a whole bunch more that I can't remember at the moment.

Not sure what you mean by A,B, & C games, but if it's what I consider an good, bad, and terrible game (or excellent, average, and below average, for THIS season (which is an aberration---I hope---and about as awful as I've ever had) would be:

A -- 220+
B -- 185 to 200
C -- less than 180

Current average is horrific 171, whereas my average at other houses is about 187-192, and until the shot changed at this house was about the same.  But the averages don't tell the whole story.  My high games were much higher and much more frequent.  This year has been more about averting a disastrous showing than achieving the highest highs.

And yet...  somehow...  my team can take the championship in a week  I'd like to be the star, but will settle for not dragging us down.

So I have nothing to lose by trying something different...just not too radically so.

Thanks in advance if I don't get a chance to reply to all responses.

MI 2 AZ

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 12:43:54 PM »
By 'A game' they mean your best or preferred way of playing the lanes.  B or C would mean any other ways you have some experience with but not as skilled.

Usually when the patterns get longer, you have to move and play the lanes closer to the pocket.  On shorter patterns you play closer to the gutter.  There is something called the Rule Of 31 which gives you a starting point on where the ball should be exiting the oil pattern.  Subtract 31 from the pattern length.  If you were playing previously on 38 ft, then by subtracting 31, you would use the 7 board as the exit point for having the ball at 38 ft.  You can see that the exit point for 40 ft would be at the 9 board.  This is not an exact point but mainly a starting point where you would then have to adjust for your particular style (release, revs, speed, etc) a little right or left.  Basically it means that for longer patterns, play closer to the pocket and for shorter patterns play closer to the gutter.  Adjust as needed.
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psycaz

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 04:28:58 PM »
How did the Paradox react?

itsallaboutme

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 07:14:14 AM »
Throw the rule of 31 out when there is free hook to the outside.  It only applies on flatter conditions.  The OP is bowling on a house shot.

ITZPS

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2017, 12:08:48 PM »
Knowing the pattern is 2 feet longer will not help you in the least if you've been fighting it all season long.  It's all about the actual ball reaction, if you're fighting reading ball reaction, numbers on a sheet of paper won't help you, especially if it's just a house shot.  The "rule of 31" is like the pirates' code, it's more like a guideline than actual rules.  I'm not a fan of bowling math anyway, bowling isn't conducted on a sheet of paper.  In my opinion you're focusing on all the wrong things.  Bowling is a game of transition, bowling math will only marginally help you figure out where to start, but by game 2, lanes have changed, and if you have trouble reading ball reaction, you won't know where or how to move. 

I just think you need to spend some time practicing.  Throw the ball, any ball, watch what it does, and adjust until the pins fall down.  Take another ball, do the same thing.  If you have lower revs and higher speed, it's likely that you encounter carrydown before you see track burn.  Two options there are move right or slow your speed down.  Watch what your ball does as it goes down the lane, watch how it enters the pocket, watch what the pins are doing, that will tell you what to do.  Try to make it all as common sense as possible, start with ball reaction first before you start looking at patterns and layouts and ball choices.  Once you understand ball reaction, you'll better understand what equipment choices you need to make.  Skid/flip reactions may be part of the problem, they tend to enhance wet/dry, and house shots are about as wet/dry as you're going to get.  Sometimes house shots are harder to read than sport patterns because first they're counter-intuitive, and second the wet/dry line or "cliff" is so steep or so fine.  On house shots, the full volume typically isn't that far away from a whole lot of dry boards.  Flatter patterns are blended better, and it's easy to understand.  Miss right, not getting back, miss left, hooking too much, and on some house patterns it's the opposite.  Forget the bowling math, most of the people that use it don't know what they're doing anyway, that's why they put such a big emphasis on it.
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avabob

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 02:14:12 PM »
Couldn't have said it better.  Practice and experiment.  Its a feedback game
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 04:57:04 PM by avabob »

leftybowler70

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 03:18:36 PM »
Well said, I see many bowlers' with the very issues that you described, and when you try to educate them, their have the 'Dear in s headlights' look and/or  think that you have no clue what your talking about. 

Neptune66

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 11:55:13 PM »
Ironically, I have done some of what has been suggested here over the last couple of days.  Went to the lanes with the intention of trying out different balls in my arsenal, but ended up gathering information and ultimately doing some experimentation.

My "A" game would be mainly a down and in from 1st arrow (5th board) at moderate to high (for me) speed of 16+mph. "B" would be standing at the far left side of the lane and rolling out to around the 5th board and watching [hoping!] the ball comes back to the pocket. "C" would be standing in the middle of the lane and hurling/lofting the ball about as far as I can toward the 5th board with hopefully enough speed (on dry conditions to get it far enough down the lane or enough rotation (on oily lanes) to get it to the pocket.

The Paradox, which I averaged well over 210 with at another house, is decent at this one, but nothing remarkable.  It was "fired" or "benched" not for terrible results, but because it wasn't the magic pill at this house that it was (and has continued to be) at the other one.

I did learn or refresh my memory on two things that might help me later this week in the rolloff:

1) Finally started moving around on the lane. Not so much from side to side, but forward and back.  It's not so radical and am sure much better bowlers than I do without thinking about it, but is something I rarely do.  So I kind of accidentally was adjusting to the length of the oil.  As it turned out, standing a little farther back (closer to the scoring area vs the foul line) seemed to allow me a slightly better margin for error.  Maybe the ball was coming off the oil at a different point in it's path, and that was enough to change the results?

2) As has been mentioned here, I should probably suspend my affection for skid-flip balls for now.  That has certainly been part of the problem because for whatever reason, if I am having trouble predicting when the ball will go from skid to roll, using that type of equipment just makes it worse. The balls that were more arcing, have been better for me over the season, but stupidly even after some success, I would return to one of my skid-flip balls, trying for bigger scores.  My version of high-risk/high reward. Only there's no reward if you can't consistently aim the ball the way you want to.

For league, I will be prepared to change my starting position on the lane and will use one of my more arcing type balls (Paradox, Storm Xtreme, Hammer Anger, etc...).  I just have to resign myself to the fact that I may not be able to string as many strikes together with those balls, but I'll probably have less weird leaves and opens than with the balls that skid and then react more strongly off the edge of the oil -----wherever it is  :) .

Still open to any other suggestions, but feeling a little more confident about the match and very much appreciate all the information shared here.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 11:57:05 PM by Neptune66 »

ITZPS

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2017, 09:44:58 AM »
Moving forwards or backwards on the approach does nothing but lengthen or shorten your steps, it's an adjustment to timing or tempo.  If you back up a foot on the approach, you're not going to end up a foot further back from the line unless you really concentrate on it, just like if you normally end up 6 inches from the line, if you move up a foot, you're not going to end up sliding over the line by 6 inches . .  Also, if the pattern is 40 feet long, you don't lengthen or shorten it by however far backwards or forwards you move.  If you move back a foot, it doesn't shorten the pattern to 39 feet.  Lol few things drive me crazier than hearing stuff like, "well I was leaving the 10 pin so I backed up 6 inches on the approach and that made the ball move just enough earlier to kick it out."  So you made the pattern 6 inches shorter by moving back 6 inches on the approach, and you're so accurate with everything else that 6 inches, a move that represents a change of 8/10ths of a single percent of the total length of the lane, was what made the difference in you carrying the 10?  Interesting . .  Moving up or back DOES change a few things, it's just not what anyone seems to think haha. 

Snappy balls look more impressive when you get them in the right spot, but rolly smoother reactions keep the ball in play easier.  Yeah flat 10s suck, but if you're good at picking them up, it's ok, and I'm not a big fan of seeing an "S" up on the board.  Only numbers should go up on the scoreboard, when letters start showing up, then you're in trouble lol. 

There's also a whole lot of 5 board talk in there . . if 5 board is where all the friction is at, I'd have a hard time believing you can comfortably play down 5 board but at the same time be able to get reaction and recovery from the same spot when you're playing deeper.  If I'm playing say 3rd arrow, 5-7 is usually where my breakpoint target is to get the ball to to finish on the backend, but if I'm playing straight, there's zero way in hell I'm playing straight up 5, ball starts hooking when it hits the lane.  Have to play at least 8-10 to get the ball down the lane without basically just having to chuck it down there.  What it really sounds like is that you're putting yourself in some of the most mentally uncomfortable situations possible.  Playing straight up 5 is not a comfortable line on a house shot.  Playing super deep and "hoping" the ball makes it back is also not comfortably on a house shot and any time you have to hurl or chuck the ball down the lane, that's not good either.  Instead of being able to relax and deliver an actual bowling shot, you're putting yourself in a lot of situations where you have to try to force reaction out of the ball by significantly altering your physical game or delivery.  You should instead try to find the most comfortable spot to play.  It sounds like you're just making it way too hard on yourself and that's likely the reason your average is down.  Patterns and balls and surfaces and layouts aren't going to do you a bit of good if you are always worried about your ball reaction. 
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Neptune66

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 11:36:48 AM »
I agree and appreciate you pointing out that starting closer or father back doesn't equate to a direct adjustment to the pattern. But you mentioned Tempo, and that I something that truly makes or breaks me on a regular basis.

I tend to walk too fast in my delivery, and when I successfully slow my steps down, I am more successful.  And years ago I USED to start about as far back on the approach as you could and was almost running by the time the ball was delivered.  Most of the time, these days, I am not that far back, and do walk slower, but unconsciously speed up during the course of the match.

By changing my starting point I was semi-consciously  (or maybe mostly UNconciously  :) ) changing the tempo of my steps, and although this time I moved farther back, was kind of a case of any change being good, because my timing was definitely off prior to the changes.

So... whether I accomplish the change in timing by changing my start point, I probably need to remind myself to MAKE that change when/if I start getting erratic results in the match.

And avoid the skid-flip equipment altogether for this particular match, or at least have a "fast hook" and be willing to switch to another non-skid-flip ball at the first sign that I am struggling.

Thank you for your insight. I don't understand all the details, but reading your post and others, and then "hearing" what I'm saying (as I'm typing) helps to remind me of some techniques I already have for adjusting. Is just that during league play, the pace is slower and I tend to get angry at myself/conditions and then the adjustment process kind of short circuits.

Gid837

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Re: longer (40 feet) pattern, which TYPE ball best?
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2017, 10:19:11 PM »
1) Unless the bowler who told you this has an affiliation with the center, i wouldn't put much stock into what they have to say about it.

2) If you're having issues with unpredictability, then angular balls such as some of the ones you listed aren't going to be the best for what you are bowling on. You're going to want to look in the lower-mid line solids and mid-upper line hybrids. (impulse solid, gauntlet, heat extreme) those types are going to give you a more predictable read. The problem with the more angular types is that they pick up the over/under. The more predictable ones are going to fight it a little more and not over react a ton.

3) if in fact the pattern is longer (depending on who you're getting the info from) move your breakpoint 1-2 boards to the left to keep it more in play.

Even on a longer house shot, getting to the pocket shouldn't be very difficult, carry may be a little tougher.
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