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Author Topic: More forward thumb pitch and bevel  (Read 8329 times)

J_w73

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More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« on: August 13, 2014, 04:28:10 PM »
I'm currently at 3/16 reverse and feel like I have a hard time keeping the ball on my hand throughout the swing and at release.  I just had a new snug 3/16 reverse, a 1/16 reverse, and a 1/16 forward switch grip thumb drilled so I can experiment.  I hung up on all of them until I opened the top of the thumb a bit and added bevel.  The 3/16 reverse required a minimal amount and the 1/16 forward required a little more. Nothing extreme but I did need more so that I could be confident I would get out of the ball.  Now that I can clear the thumb it feels like the ball comes off too fast at the bottom.   I do like that the ball stays on my hand better throughout the swing.

This is the most forward I have ever been.  Until I drilled my new equipment I was usually at 3/8 reverse

Should I go more forward and just open the top and bevel the thumb until I can clear? 
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

 

Gizmo823

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2014, 07:10:11 AM »
The need of bevel tells me that your span is too long and your thumb is out of position.  On the release, your thumb should come straight out, you shouldn't drag it across the front side of the hole.  Matter of fact, the less bevel you can use, the better.  Bevel just allows your thumb socket at the top of the hole to get out of position easier and can cause you to grip more, which should be the very thing you're eliminating by going to less reverse pitch.  Whenever you remove reverse or go to more forward, you need to slightly reduce the span anyway. 

Ideally, your thumb socket should be directly above the thumbhole so that on release, the thumb comes straight out.  If you can hold your ball in one hand and put just your thumb in straight and pull it straight back out with no problem, you should be able to do the same thing when you throw it. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

J_w73

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2014, 10:38:14 AM »
Thanks for the reply.  I have recently shortened my span for the very reason you are stating.  I was at a 5 1/16 inch span for the longest and just went down to 4 3/4.  I had always needed at least 3/8 reverse to get out of a ball.  The bevel that I have now is not excessive, but it is more than likely because I was dragging on the front edge of the thumb.     My thumb has never rolled right into the hole.  I would always have to crook it around the edge to get into the hole.  With the 4 3/4 it feels like it goes right in, at least more than it ever has.  I will re-evaluate my span to see if I need to go even shorter.


I do have one question.  With my shortened span now I am getting some callusing on the top back of my thumb and on the left back side of my fingers.  It looks like this is due to the fingers being in contact with the back side of the inserts where before they were stretched and never made that contact because they were being pulled away.  What is your take on that?  I'm at 3/8 reverse in both fingers
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 10:41:05 AM by J_w73 »
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

Gizmo823

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2014, 10:45:04 AM »
Yeah, that makes sense.  If you're dragging your thumb over the front edge, geometry causes the back of your thumb to rub on the back of the hole coming out.  Reduced span again may fix the fingers, but you may have to go to something like 1/8 left and 5/8 right in your middle and ring fingers. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Gizmo823

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2014, 10:45:33 AM »
You have any reverse in your fingers?  Might add some. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

J_w73

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2014, 11:15:40 AM »
Yeah, that makes sense.  If you're dragging your thumb over the front edge, geometry causes the back of your thumb to rub on the back of the hole coming out.  Reduced span again may fix the fingers, but you may have to go to something like 1/8 left and 5/8 right in your middle and ring fingers. 

I'm 0 and 3/4 right now in my fingers. Both at 3/8 reverse.  What pitches were you making that 1/8 left and 5/8 right move from?
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

JustRico

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2014, 11:46:28 AM »
Always go the ditection the wear...thus if you're at 0 & 3/4" (which is excessive at best) I would prolly go more like 1/4 & 3/8" and see what that does
You're making a lot of changes and this can create confusion...you need a valid starting and then make adjustments from there...
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
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J_w73

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2014, 11:53:26 AM »
Always go the ditection the wear...thus if you're at 0 & 3/4" (which is excessive at best) I would prolly go more like 1/4 & 3/8" and see what that does
You're making a lot of changes and this can create confusion...you need a valid starting and then make adjustments from there...

I sent you a pm. I have been working on my grip for a very long time.  I've tried a lot of different pitches and where I am right now is what seems to work best but it still is off.
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

JustRico

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2014, 12:03:34 PM »
I PMed you back (:
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
...where knowledge creates striking results...
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J_w73

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2014, 12:22:05 PM »
Yeah, that makes sense.  If you're dragging your thumb over the front edge, geometry causes the back of your thumb to rub on the back of the hole coming out.  Reduced span again may fix the fingers, but you may have to go to something like 1/8 left and 5/8 right in your middle and ring fingers. 

The callous is at the top of the thumb hole.  I do not have much rubbing on the back or side down by the nail or knuckle.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 12:27:10 PM by J_w73 »
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

LuckyLefty

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2014, 02:42:08 PM »
If the callous is on the flat of the thumb and is new since you changed to less reverse adding a slight amount of front bevel using the Mo Pinel bevel tips could solve everything.

For the always thinking Gizmo.  A thought to consider.
As to always having the thumb fall in to the thumb hole when the ball is resting on the table....well there are other bowlers with very flexible hands who while bowling their hand seems to lengthen as the ball weight comes on to the fingers. 
I am one of those flexible bowlers.  Many very experienced ball drillers often suggest I go a little longer than I currently am which has the thumb hole about 1/8 of an inch longer than having my thumb fall in to the thumbhole while the ball is holes-up on the drilling table.

If I use the fall right in to the thumbhole method suggested in posts above...
If I only go that length the back of my thumb often feels while bowling that it is hitting the back of the thumbhole.


I do believe there are many bowlers with much less flexible hands than mine!

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

J_w73

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2014, 03:06:08 PM »
Quote
author=J_w73
The callous is at the top of the thumb hole.  I do not have much rubbing on the back or side down by the nail or knuckle.

The callous is on the back side of the thumb.  Up near the top of the hole.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 03:09:07 PM by J_w73 »
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

LuckyLefty

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2014, 04:13:22 PM »
Sounds like span now too short....but....

I have never gotten to that point but close....  When I have my thumb go straight in!

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

JustRico

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2014, 09:23:09 PM »
The necessity of bevel for anything other than shaping, is merely facilitating the thumb being stretched or out of proper alignment - being forced in an 'unnatural' position - with the hand and wrist plain and simple...if bevel is needed to release the ball, the fit (span & gripping angles) is incorrect.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: More forward thumb pitch and bevel
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2014, 08:08:45 AM »
JustRico,

So to accurately interpret your post.

All balls with any amount of bevel are wrong?  Span and pitches must be adjusted?  Why is having NO bevel important?

That seems like an extreme position. 

Please clarify?

Thanks,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana