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Author Topic: Motiv website  (Read 13817 times)

12XSECH

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Motiv website
« on: March 23, 2016, 03:42:06 PM »
The info for the jackals was supposed to be up today...just checked and nothing.

 

psycaz

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2016, 09:37:07 AM »
Why do you guys keep quoting the rules? Do you work for UBSC? This core has been in production for 5 years, has been approved 5 times by USBC. No one's arguing about the rules. What happened that they are suddenly illegal? Who sent these supposed balls that said "spin me". Were these balls tampered with? Lots of questions, no answers and all we can do is sit back and see what happens.

Actually they are. Pointing to the balls that were grandfathered when the limit was reduced is talking about the rules.

As to why the balls went out of spec, that is for Motiv to determine.

chucksta29

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2016, 10:25:52 AM »
Why do you guys keep quoting the rules? Do you work for UBSC? This core has been in production for 5 years, has been approved 5 times by USBC. No one's arguing about the rules. What happened that they are suddenly illegal? Who sent these supposed balls that said "spin me". Were these balls tampered with? Lots of questions, no answers and all we can do is sit back and see what happens.

Because this is a discussion forum, where we are discussing what happened.  If you would like to sit back and see what happens go ahead.  Nothing wrong with some of us discussing the issue.  Seems kind of arbitrary to come onto a discussion forum to discourage people from discussing something  :o

To your other point that rule is why this whole situation occurred, so why wouldn't we talk about it. 
-I'd rather you hate me for everything I am, then have you love me for something I am not-

SVstar34

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2016, 10:31:12 AM »
What happened that they are suddenly illegal? Who sent these supposed balls that said "spin me". Were these balls tampered with? Lots of questions, no answers and all we can do is sit back and see what happens.

The assumption is something in motiv's manufacturing process changed which led to the balls being out of spec. Even if those select balls were tampered with, which I don't know how you could, USBC pulled more samples from distributors

AlBundy33

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2016, 12:45:40 PM »
Al.

There are several benefits the USBC provides, but if the USBC ever stops bonding, that would be the final death knell in my opinion.

If they cut other things out that have been around for several generations, what would stop them from doing that?
Instead of "A Future For The Sport", it really should be "A Sport Without A Future"

WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2016, 03:01:15 PM »
12...sorry to say but I have been but any system can be beat, and I have seen this occur with a similar set-up as you describe. Just because 2 people are not on the same team does not mean that they are not friends and collude, and also does not mean someone from the house cannot collude with one or both of them. I worked in a pro shop at a bowling alley that touted using the bowling alley as a way to keep the money, and not use a bank, etc. Bowling alley makes the deposit, nobody needs to risk running to the bank, safety of someone hiding stuff....well...at the end of the year, the assistant manager that had access to all of the bowling's accounts drained every account and took off. Authorities found him months later, but there was NO money at the banquet and no bonding for a reason I forget. Further, because the asst manager drained all the bank accounts, the alley owner didn't have any funds to "replace" the money that was stolen, but there was no agreement for him to replace any missing funds either even if he had the money.

I would still advise insurance or bonding of some type, regardless. If someone wants something bad enough, he/she will take it.

AMF300bowler

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2016, 11:04:52 AM »
In the leagues that will be non sanctioned...The house will be the treasurer and will need 2 league member who are not house employees or relatives to sign checks or make withdrawls. 1 signature belongs to the house, the other 2 signatures are league members who are not on the same team and are not related. Its actually very simple. The usbc is NOT needed to protect league money as long as precautions are put in place. If someone bowls their 1st 300 or 800, they can buy their own ring if they want to. Far to many people think the usbc is the lordship of bowling. They are shit, plain and simple...who are they and who put them in charge? F the usbc and all their shady deals.

And when someone from the house runs off with your money, the house is NOT obligated to take money out of its own pocket put it back into your prize fund. Yes, the USBC would if the rules were followed. I won't bowl in an unsanctioned league. Too many crooks, druggies and gamblers these days looking to steal money. I read about it all the time.
Balls: Motiv Forza GT, Motiv Primal Rage Remix, Motiv Ascent Pearl and Motiv (On The Ball) spare ball.. All made in the USA.

WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2016, 11:13:26 AM »
Exactly right AMF...and the problem is, we have no idea who might or will be the next one to make the news. It does happen WAY too often, and I am not willing to take that risk.

I have read at the minimum of 2 articles a week about someone getting charged with embezzlement from work, from the local school, the PIE (parents in education) fund at the school, whatever. It happens ALL the time. Systems get beat all the time. New systems can be beat. Unless there is insurance, why take a risk?

ICDeadMoney

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2016, 11:26:37 AM »
In the leagues that will be non sanctioned...The house will be the treasurer and will need 2 league member who are not house employees or relatives to sign checks or make withdrawls. 1 signature belongs to the house, the other 2 signatures are league members who are not on the same team and are not related. Its actually very simple. The usbc is NOT needed to protect league money as long as precautions are put in place. If someone bowls their 1st 300 or 800, they can buy their own ring if they want to. Far to many people think the usbc is the lordship of bowling. They are shit, plain and simple...who are they and who put them in charge? F the usbc and all their shady deals.

While I agree with a very large portion of what you say, there is one area that the USBC is protecting the game.

If you left everything up to the owners, you could have things like pins being spotted closer together in increase scoring, gutter at the pin deck being so shallow that everything the hits the side boards comes back into play.

Making the lane less flat to guide even grandma's ball to the center of the lane.

Pretty soon, they've turned it into the equivalent of miniature golf.

12XSECH

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2016, 12:08:54 PM »
IC, The lanes will still be up to standards. There are other leagues that will be sanctioned there...The house will not adjust pinsetters just to increase scores....As far as the money goes...If enough precautions are put in place the money cannot be stolen. If it means there has to be 6 different signatures then thats what it will be... If all 6 people have to show up at the bank at the same time with photo ID to withdraw money...Thats what it will have to be. I'm not a bonding agent but if that has to be done, Im sure it can be done. Ask the UBA and Federation bowlers how many times they have been ripped off...I dont think at all, not that I heard about anyway. The usbc does not own bowling. They are a crooked establishment with no transparency.

WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2016, 01:22:12 PM »
So someone at the bank couldn't collude with someone from the bowling alley or the league to go around the need for extra signatures, because you are placing your faith in the bank to ensure they get those signatures.

I can answer that as I am a Risk Manager at a major national bank.

The answer is yes. We have prosecuted tellers who looked the other way or was in on the heist and went around the asks of the account.

So go ahead and set it up with EVERYONE in the league needing to sign. All it takes is for one person at the bank to "look" past this requirement and all the security measures in the world DO NOT MATTER.

Unless you have insurance of course.

I never said you should use or have to use the USBC. All I have stated is if you go the route to not use the USBC, make sure you get insurance or bonding or whatever is needed to ensure the league gets the money back in the event someone steals the $$.


txbowler

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2016, 03:44:07 PM »
IC, The lanes will still be up to standards. There are other leagues that will be sanctioned there...The house will not adjust pinsetters just to increase scores..

Really - True story - several years ago, I had to take a business trip to PA.  I took 2 balls and shoes with me as I was bowling nationals the following week and wanted to practice since I was out of town all week.  I looked up the nearest bowling alley in the phone book which was a small town about 20 miles away from where I was staying.  (Not a big metro city).  Drove there and walked into a nice old school 12 lane house.  Got a lane and threw a ball (lefty).  The ball immediately hooked into the gutter.  The owner who was bowling league at the other end of the house walked over and said, oh, didn't realize you were a lefty.  We don't have any lefties in town so I don't oil the left side to save money.  I asked where the next closest bowling alley was.  He said an hour south.

I have bowled in bowling alley's where the oil man cut the buffer on the machine so it oiled 10-10 (old century machine).

In small town America, it's not so plain and simple as you want to make it out to be.

12XSECH

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2016, 04:39:42 PM »
I live in "Big city" America...Long Island...Oiling half of the lane has never happened here and will never happen...Although I can see that in some small rural area....The Bank....Just like a credit card, the bank is responsible if a teller "looked the other way". Its called theft if that happens fdic insurance or bank bonding etc will cover that. Its the same as if I lost a blank check and someone signed my name..I'm not responsible for that...The bank is. If the only thing the usbc is good for is bonding prize funds, then they are not doing much. The 2 million or so bowlers that avg between 120 and 170 get nothing for their sanction...But this debate can go on for ever....

WOWZERS

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2016, 04:44:28 PM »
The money should be covered, eventually. After this and after that. But regardless, you are still acting as if everything is covered. It's not. And if you don't think the bank will try to wiggle out of it every way possible and put off any settlement, you are completely wrong.

It is that type of attitude when these things exactly occur, but by then, it is too late and now we have the next example of what to do instead of what was done.

ICDeadMoney

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Re: Motiv website
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2016, 03:37:35 PM »
IC, The lanes will still be up to standards. There are other leagues that will be sanctioned there...The house will not adjust pinsetters just to increase scores....As far as the money goes...If enough precautions are put in place the money cannot be stolen. If it means there has to be 6 different signatures then thats what it will be... If all 6 people have to show up at the bank at the same time with photo ID to withdraw money...Thats what it will have to be. I'm not a bonding agent but if that has to be done, Im sure it can be done. Ask the UBA and Federation bowlers how many times they have been ripped off...I dont think at all, not that I heard about anyway. The usbc does not own bowling. They are a crooked establishment with no transparency.

If everyone agreed the USBC was a crooked establishment, what leagues would still be sanctioned there?  If none, there is no reason for annual inspections.