Author Topic: Older Equipment (Read 5841 times)

TWOHAND834 · « **on:** May 21, 2010, 01:26:22 AM »

I know this has probably been discussed before in the distant past, but I for one would like to see companies maybe have a "classic" ball or two come out every now and then. I am not saying to do a mass production of them, but maybe a run of a few thousand of them of some of the faves of the past. I know Ebonite brought back the Puma and Nitro R2 a few years back. Would be cool to see some of the oldie but goodies released once in awhile. Examples of balls I would like to see come back out:

Brunswick: Teal Rhino Pro, Gold Rhino Pro
Columbia: Rock On, Messenger Ti Pearl (blk/gold), Tour Boss
Hammer: Original 3D Solid and Pearl
Track: Critical Mass, Triton Heat, Elite Pearl, Code Red
Ebonite: Black Panther
Storm: Tour Power, Trauma, Trauma ER, Shock Trauma, X-Factor

Like I said before, just pick one ball each year and release it as a "classic" run. What other balls would you like to see? We talk about past faves all the time. I am not talking about balls that came in within the past few years.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

stopncrank · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2010, 09:32:02 AM »

Would love to see Hammer do an updated version of the Blue Hammer, urethane of course...im not sure they could since they were Faball back then.

+1000 on the X-factor, that was one of those balls that had a unique reaction you couldnt get from another company at the time.

Ebonite- I loved the Apex, as well as the Wolf series, i dont think there was a bad ball in that line.

Brunswick-Purple Rhino Pro, or even the Phantom's, assymetrical core with Urethane cover, surely that would get some use these days.
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

NeumannKnight · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2010, 09:49:13 AM »

I would love to see Track re-run the Freak line (Freak, Super Freak, Mutant, etc) Absolutely phenominal line of equipment.

Also, if Columbia would release an updated version of the Renegade TI. That ball was fantastic
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My current arsenal includes:
Columbia 300: Perfect Rival, Action Attack
Hammer: Jigsaw, No Mercy
Storm: Reign, Natural (best ball ever)
Nu-Line: The Gauntlet (my favorite)
AMF: The Heist
Insite: Revelations

NeumannKnight · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2010, 09:50:08 AM »

Also, Hammer needs to stop playing around and re-release that HART core line. That core was friggin sweet.
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My current arsenal includes:
Columbia 300: Perfect Rival, Action Attack
Hammer: Jigsaw, No Mercy
Storm: Reign, Natural (best ball ever)
Nu-Line: The Gauntlet (my favorite)
AMF: The Heist
Insite: Revelations

PLM · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2010, 10:04:00 AM »

Good thread here. It would be great to see some rereleases.

qstick777 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2010, 10:37:01 AM »

quote:
Would love to see Hammer do an updated version of the Blue Hammer, urethane of course...im not sure they could since they were Faball back then.

+1000 on the X-factor, that was one of those balls that had a unique reaction you couldnt get from another company at the time.

Ebonite- I loved the Apex, as well as the Wolf series, i dont think there was a bad ball in that line.

Brunswick-Purple Rhino Pro, or even the Phantom's, assymetrical core with Urethane cover, surely that would get some use these days.
--------------------
Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....

Not sure Ebonite Int'l is going to jump on the urethane bandwagon. We got urethane from AMF (Hype), Brunswick (Avalanche), Seismic (Desperado), Storm (Natural), and Visionary (Ogre) - yet nothing from Columbia/Ebonite/Hammer/Track.

Hammer tried the "control" route back a few years ago with the Pure Hammer line, but I don't think it did very well. IIRC, it wasn't a true urethane cover, but was supposed to be close.

Brunswick remade the Rhino Pro Purple not too long ago - Didn't hear much about it until it went on closeout.

http://www.bowlingball.com/brunswick-rhino-pro-purple-bowling-ball.html

Judging from the videos, it was 2008:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1374202/brunswick_purple_rhino_pro_bowling_ball_by_buddiesproshop_com_t/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1097959/brunswick_purple_rhino_pro_bowling_ball_by_buddiesproshop_com_b/

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2010, 10:39:22 AM »

Steve,

I think most companies hesitate a lot to do that based on past experience. Brunswick did re-issue the Danger Zone one of the greatest balls ever made and response was ho-hum, to say the least. I believe a distributor had several older balls re-made including the also great Fire QUantum. They couldn't give them away.
Columbia did re-issue the Pulse, same reaction.
When Ebonite re-released the Puma and the Nitro, did you see them anywhere? I didn't.

Lanemasters just re-issued the Buzz. Not an older ball, but still a beloved ball. I think they went fast, but it was a VERY limited run, like 100 (I think).

While I would also love a few greats from years gone by, I think reality is too many of them will sit unsold for too long. Many people aren't happy unless every ball they buy has a new and never before used core. If they don't get that, they scream and yell like they've been cheated.

Would love to see a new Blue Wolf and a Black Ice.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

RealBowler · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2010, 10:47:45 AM »

quote:
Steve,

I think most companies hesitate a lot to do that based on past experience. Brunswick did re-issue the Danger Zone one of the greatest balls ever made and response was ho-hum, to say the least. I believe a distributor had several older balls re-made including the also great Fire QUantum. They couldn't give them away.
Columbia did re-issue the Pulse, same reaction.
When Ebonite re-released the Puma and the Nitro, did you see them anywhere? I didn't.

Lanemasters just re-issued the Buzz. Not an older ball, but still a beloved ball. I think they went fast, but it was a VERY limited run, like 100 (I think).

While I would also love a few greats from years gone by, I think reality is too many of them will sit unsold for too long. Many people aren't happy unless every ball they buy has a new and never before used core. If they don't get that, they scream and yell like they've been cheated.

Would love to see a new Blue Wolf and a Black Ice.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

I think the problem is that people aren't as "in love" with the older balls, just the reaction - or what they remember, or think they remember, about the reaction.

Times change, and so do conditions. People see the re-releases and they don't perform like they did years ago, so they don't sell. If they don't sell, the companies don't make money.

Of course I bowl with a bunch of people that still use the old equipment and it works fine on most house shots!

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Haywood

********************************************
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill,
that we shall pay any price, bear any burden,
meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe,
in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

--JOHN F. KENNEDY
********************************************

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2010, 10:55:23 AM »

I also think it comes down to demand. A lot of bowlers are only interested in the latest, greatest release. That's why a lot of companies seem to be staggering their releases a lot more these days. I remember when Storm was still working with the X-Factor line, they released balls so quickly, some of them got overlooked because a new one came out 1-2 months later. I think the older balls, while very good in many instances, are way too niche to be worth a company's time. Sure, there will be a few guys who have to pick one up because they loved it back when, but the majority of the bowling world will ignore the re-release and focus on the newest thing out there. It's much wiser for companies to bring old balls back with different names and colors. That way, people think they're getting something new. If you look closely at numbers, core shapes, etc., you'll see this is not something new.
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Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

qstick777 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2010, 11:06:36 AM »

quote:
I also think it comes down to demand. A lot of bowlers are only interested in the latest, greatest release. That's why a lot of companies seem to be staggering their releases a lot more these days. I remember when Storm was still working with the X-Factor line, they released balls so quickly, some of them got overlooked because a new one came out 1-2 months later. I think the older balls, while very good in many instances, are way too niche to be worth a company's time. Sure, there will be a few guys who have to pick one up because they loved it back when, but the majority of the bowling world will ignore the re-release and focus on the newest thing out there. It's much wiser for companies to bring old balls back with different names and colors. That way, people think they're getting something new. If you look closely at numbers, core shapes, etc., you'll see this is not something new.
--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

True enough. I think it may also come down to the price point. If you are going to ask a bowler to pay the same for older technology, it probably isn't going to happen.

Look at Columbia and the new Burst. It's supposed to the same as the Resurgence - same cover and core, just different colors and different finishing process. It's also much cheaper and people are still arguing about whether it's the same ball, and why it's at a different price point.

To an extent I guess Brunswick is going "retro" with the Avalanche series. Back to the basic light bulb core and offering different coverstocks. Maybe even the same for Columbia and Ebonite with the Freeze and new Curve and Hard Ball. The Freeze is a modified version of the Messenger core, and the Curve/Hard ball is another version of the light bulb core.

You can probably find similar reactions with current balls, so maybe people just like the old logos or color combinations?

I know I'd like to see a newer ball come out with the Beast logo - I wasn't bowling when they were out.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2010, 11:27:03 AM »

quote:
Steve,

I think most companies hesitate a lot to do that based on past experience. Brunswick did re-issue the Danger Zone one of the greatest balls ever made and response was ho-hum, to say the least. I believe a distributor had several older balls re-made including the also great Fire QUantum. They couldn't give them away.
Columbia did re-issue the Pulse, same reaction.
When Ebonite re-released the Puma and the Nitro, did you see them anywhere? I didn't.

Lanemasters just re-issued the Buzz. Not an older ball, but still a beloved ball. I think they went fast, but it was a VERY limited run, like 100 (I think).

While I would also love a few greats from years gone by, I think reality is too many of them will sit unsold for too long. Many people aren't happy unless every ball they buy has a new and never before used core. If they don't get that, they scream and yell like they've been cheated.

Would love to see a new Blue Wolf and a Black Ice.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

This is exactly the reason why I said to make a limited run of them. When the Puma and Nitro came out, we did a demo day at the same time the Hawg came out and some people absolutely loved the way the Nitro rolled. We sold quite a few of them. Another reason why you wont see tons of older stuff sold is simply because they wont be thrown on tv. Point in case....how many Missions were sold after Kelly handed Barnes his rear end and won? ALOT of balls are impulse buys based on what they see from tv or someone else. Kind of like Visionary did (not their own fault/decision, they had to) with the Gladiator LE, release 1000 of them. Even if it doesnt sell in the first few months, they have a year to sell them before the next one comes out.

I am sure there are enough of us that are "in love" with balls from the mid-late 90s (Critical Mass, Nuke, 3D Solid and Pearl) that as soon as we see it on the shelf, we will find whatever means necessary to buy it.

Here is another thought..........what if a company, instead of releasing "weaker" equipment (Slingshots, Tropical Heats, Tornadoes) use the mid-entry level area as the place to sell classic balls? I guess what I am saying is that balls that retail in the $140 area, all they are is coverstocks from 5 years ago from higher end equipment with weaker cores. So, based on that, couldnt taking an older classic and putting it at that price point generate any interest? Just a thought.

IDEA: Have the manufacturers websites do a poll on which "oldie" bowlers would like to see again. Whichever balls generate interest, do a limited run of them (maybe a 1000).
--------------------

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Juggernaut · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2010, 11:44:43 AM »

With all the change in ownership, some of the old balls just aren't able to be made anymore.

Brunswick could still remake anything they wanted. So could Storm or Ebonite, but Track, Columbia, Hammer, and the rest of those that have come and gone, probably can't.

Those that have changed suppliers can't either. Take Lane1 for example. They used to have Brunswick covers, but not now, so anything from back then won't ever be seen again ( I.E. cherry c/2 and silver diamond)
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Good transactions list in my profile

ccrider · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2010, 01:43:23 PM »

I think it is a good idea and would be good for bowling. I just had a friend pay more than I ever thought of for a teal rhino. You see the gold rhinos go for more than one can reason all of the time. Just a couple of examples.

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Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.

Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.

charlest · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2010, 02:04:38 PM »

Steve,

I agree, except I think limited run may have to be downsized to 250 - 500.

I like your idea of putting the classic in a mid- to lower price range.
I'd also love to see a Sapphire Zone solid and pearl, as well as a Combat Zone and a Tour Boss.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

qstick777 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2010, 02:18:14 PM »

quote:
Steve,

I agree, except I think limited run may have to be downsized to 250 - 500.

I like your idea of putting the classic in a mid- to lower price range.
I'd also love to see a Sapphire Zone solid and pearl, as well as a Combat Zone and a Tour Boss.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

That's about the number you would need if you were to get a manufacturer to make you a private label ball, or to do an exclusive remake. If you have enough money, you can hit up one of the companies to do a remake just for you.

I'd have to do some searching, but I think one of the company reps said it takes about a day to retool the factory for each new ball they are producing. You'd have to factor that into the equation. Is it worth it for a company to go through all of that to make 250-500 balls?

Also, not sure if they would have to go through the USBC approval process again or not.

Author Topic: Older Equipment (Read 5841 times)

TWOHAND834

Older Equipment

stopncrank

Re: Older Equipment

NeumannKnight

Re: Older Equipment

NeumannKnight

Re: Older Equipment

PLM

Re: Older Equipment

qstick777

Re: Older Equipment

charlest

Re: Older Equipment

RealBowler

Re: Older Equipment

Gene J Kanak

Re: Older Equipment

qstick777

Re: Older Equipment

TWOHAND834

Re: Older Equipment

Juggernaut

Re: Older Equipment

ccrider

Re: Older Equipment

charlest

Re: Older Equipment

qstick777

Re: Older Equipment