win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Power in bowling?  (Read 11914 times)

xrayjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
Power in bowling?
« on: May 17, 2016, 11:51:04 AM »
what is power and where does it come from?

It seems so many coaches have different philosophies or teachings on power.

Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

 

Good Times Good Times

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6462
  • INTJ Personality
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2016, 12:18:09 PM »
Short answer:  My opinion of "power" is speed and revs applied to the ball from the bowler and it comes from leverage. 
GTx2

bergman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 355
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2016, 12:51:36 PM »
Power is the name of the game today. Today's  "power" actually comes from a much different source than "power" came from in the old days---the days of the traditional stroker.  In the old days, power (revs) came from maintaining a firm wrist up and through the release. In addition, this was coupled with the bowler maintaining a more erect vertical and lateral spine angle throughout the approach and release. In those days, power indeed, came from leverage----leverage created by the firm wrist and minimal spine angles--- which used the major muscles of the back.

Power today comes from an entirely different source. It results in
the wrist collapsing at the point of release. It's similar to how the wrist uncoils when flipping a frisbee. The power actually comes from a lack of body and hand leverage, especially at release. It actually requires the bowler's torso and hand to be in a weaker (not stronger) position---just the opposite from the "old days".

This is sometimes difficult to see at first glance but it is true. In order for the bowler's hand to completely collapse at release, it requires the bowler to deploy increasing amounts of spine tilt (especially side -lateral tilt). This places more of the weight of the ball directly onto the hand, since the spine and the muscles surrounding the spine
are no longer in a "strong" position to create the "leverage" to support the hand. This
lack of "leverage" becomes greatest where the ball is heaviest--at the bottom of the swing. This naturally causes the wrist to "collapse" at release, which creates the power and revolutions that you see in the contemporary game. It is often thought that today's power comes from (muscular) strength. It's the exact opposite that is the source of this power----it's due to a lack of leverage.  Leverage was needed to create power and revs in the old days. Not so today.

 

BallReviews-Removed0385

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2016, 01:09:33 PM »
The LEGS supply the power, while the arm is for direction.  I try to imagine 70% effort from legs, and 30% the arm/wrists/hand.

I don't disagree with the previous posts either.  If you'll use the large muscles in the legs to carry the load you'll last longer before tiring.  If your footwork is good and your legs are carrying the load "your" release will usually fall into place. 

How many guys with GREAT releases (using tons of muscle) 5 years ago are now having carpal tunnel and rotator cuff surgeries?   

"Power" is a combination of good body mechanics and a consistent release.  Bergman went into great detail on the modern release above.  Just make certain that you're using proper body mechanics or you'll have a short window of success and the rest of your life wondering what happened.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 01:11:35 PM by notclay »

bullred

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2016, 01:32:37 PM »
Darn, all this time I just thought you bought it in a box.  If all this is true, then a person with these skills should just use a "house ball" and save all his money for cold ones celebrating his many victories.

bergman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 355
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2016, 01:50:38 PM »
To follow up on Lane's post about the importance of your legs in bowling. Several years ago I had the good fortune to take some lessons from one of the greats--Bill Hall.
At the time, Bill was working out of the now defunct Showboat Lanes in Las Vegas.
I spent a few days with Bill. On my first day, he analyzed my game and told me that he wanted me to get my legs into the game for better power and consistency. At the time,
I had been in a terrible slump and was looking to him for some direction. Towards the end of that first day he sat down with me and said, "by the time you are finished here you will probably be cursing me because your legs are going to be sore". Well, I did not curse him (quite the opposite). When I was ready to depart Vegas, my legs were indeed quite sore because he utilized drills that focused on using my lower body and less use of the (upper torso). The sore legs were sending me a very important message ( They were telling me that I was had not been using them to their maximum potential). Needless to say, my game rapidly improved from that point on.
As I get older, it becomes even more important that I keep my legs in shape. I do exercises for just this purpose. 

So, if you begin to see your game trailing off, especially during longer formats, it might just be due to your legs not being up to the task at hand.

BallReviews-Removed0385

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2016, 02:21:52 PM »

Darn, all this time I just thought you bought it in a box.  If all this is true, then a person with these skills should just use a "house ball" and save all his money for cold ones celebrating his many victories.

The right ball is an important factor, but if you can't hit the same spot twice it won't matter what you're using.

As I have aged (and had a shoulder reconstruction)  I've noticed that I need to focus on repeating shots and reading ball reaction better.  The days of "grip it and rip it" are long gone for me.  I NEED my legs to do the work...

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2016, 04:15:13 PM »
Balls are not powerful nor weak.  They merely have much different friction coefficients.  Power is generally defined as being able to  apply side roll to a ball at a high rate of revolution.  This power would quickly dissipate but for the oil on the front part of the lane which makes the ball skid prior to changing direction.  The more power ( higher rev rate ) the harder and sooner a ball will change direction.  It is the hard change of direction ( not the amount of change ) that translates to hitting power through the lessening of deflection as the ball hits the head pin. 

bergman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 355
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2016, 05:44:33 PM »
That's correct, Avabob.  A plastic 3-piece ball has the same amount of "hook" in it as do the top-of-the-shelf balls of today. It might take 200 feet of length for the plastic ball
to cover the same amount of boards as the best balls of today, regardless of surface or core design but they both possess the same amount of "hook" if they are of the same weight and density. 

bullred

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2016, 10:09:17 PM »
Can't let loose of all the comments about"power" in bowling.   Most were that it takes "revs", "speed", "axis rotationl", "tilt".  All inferring a masculine type of power.

Now, I've had the pleasure, and good luck to have bowled around some of the top women bowlers.  95% of them don't do all these power things, but they can strike all day.   One thing in common they all have is the ability to use the oil, not the dry, to position their ball.  Secondly, they position their ball to have the best chance of a strike(angle).  Third, they control their breakpoint to be as close to the pocket as they can.  Last but not least most of them have revs that match up to their speed. I would bet most of them are covering around 21" of floor for each rev. when their ball hits the pins.   Combine that with the close in breakpoint they all have and you have "power.

So, power can be other things besides high revs, high speed, lots of axis rotation.  It is also putting all the mechanics together in the proper way.

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2016, 10:10:14 AM »
Power is still a factor no matter how much of a finesse game you have.  It is about being efficient in utilizing the power.  There is way more friction available than is necessary for maximum carry in the modern game.  One of the reasons I don't get as excited and upset about the two handed trend is because it is really not necessary to create the amount of revs those guys do.  Unless they are very accurate ( some are ) a lower rev player can compete with them if they are more accurate in controlling breakpoint.

Having said the above here is where power is an issue.  Because of the friction in todays game the power players blow up the oil pattern and make it necessary to have more ball speed to over power the blown up conditions.  One poster cites the success of women players who utilize oil and are accurate.  As a 68 year old senior, my game is a lot closer to those women than to Sean Rash or Belmonte.  What that means is the women and I can stay with the power guys for a few games, but when they inevitably blow up the pattern we are toast without speed and rev rate to get left.

Lower the friction ( either ball surfaces or make oils that hold up much better ) and you put more emphasis on finesse, and less on rev rate and ball speed.

bergman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 355
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2016, 12:44:05 PM »
I can relate to that. As a 66 year old senior, I enjoy watching the women bowlers because our physical games are very similar. However, my "problem" is the opposite of what most seniors experience. My natural game is clearly in the "more-speed-to revs category.  I struggle on longer, heavier patterns, whether they are THS or sport shots. Speed varies of course, depending on the ball being used as well as how much friction there is on the lane at any given time but on average, my natural ball speed hovers around 19mph. So for me, those wonderful Abralon pads are my best friend, as I am on the constant hunt for friction--lol.

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2016, 01:44:57 PM »
Just goes to show you cant generalize too much.  I wish I could buy some of your ball speed from you.  I suspect what you point out may be an example of seniors having to choose between strong side roll and generating ball speed.  Fortunately for me my rev rate and ball speed are reasonably well matched.  My arm swing which is probably the best part of my game limits being able to generate the kind of speed and revs the young guys can.  It makes me a niche player, but at least it is a bigger niche thanks to my accuracy and the choices I have with modern balls. 

bergman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 355
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2016, 10:53:26 AM »
Indeed. Many years back I attempted to convert to a power game---- Unfortunately,
it was a bust. It took me the better part of 2 seasons just getting back to my original (stroker) game. I learned the game in the same era as you did, when the game
emphasized balance and timing. I often wish that I could have at least some of the power that some of the younger bowlers have today, but it was never meant to be.
Over the years I have had lessons with so many wonderful instructors (Bill Hall, Jowdy,
Borden, Baker, etc.) and I learned something of value from each and every one of them.
About 15 years ago, I took a few lessons from Jowdy when I was living in San Diego.
He told me something that has stuck with me. He said, unless you have exceptional talent and ability, stick with what you do best and work like heck to perfect that computer chip that Mother Nature has given just to you . He also said that whatever you do--- it should never, ever be at the expense of a good armswing because 95% of this game is, and always will be, "direction".  They have been words to live by for me ever since.   

tommygn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Power in bowling?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 01:12:13 PM »
Can't let loose of all the comments about"power" in bowling.   Most were that it takes "revs", "speed", "axis rotationl", "tilt".  All inferring a masculine type of power.

Now, I've had the pleasure, and good luck to have bowled around some of the top women bowlers.  95% of them don't do all these power things, but they can strike all day.   One thing in common they all have is the ability to use the oil, not the dry, to position their ball.  Secondly, they position their ball to have the best chance of a strike(angle).  Third, they control their breakpoint to be as close to the pocket as they can.  Last but not least most of them have revs that match up to their speed. I would bet most of them are covering around 21" of floor for each rev. when their ball hits the pins.   Combine that with the close in breakpoint they all have and you have "power.

So, power can be other things besides high revs, high speed, lots of axis rotation.  It is also putting all the mechanics together in the proper way.

Bullred,

If power is all about the ball and mechanics, then why don't ALL the top women who have much more mechanically sound form and repetition then do men, beat the men on the PBA tour?

Answer, they don't have the same "power", period.

What about the two handers? They have little consistency and or repeat-ability. They generate a wide pocket because of the revolutions and power. Their mechanics are NOT good, but yet they strike "all day".
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!