Author Topic: question about pap markings on a ball during competition. (Read 2441 times)

chitown · « **on:** January 06, 2009, 12:30:19 AM »

Question: I know you can't have any tape on your PAP during competition. What about using a grease pencil and making a mark on your pap. Could a ball that has the pap marked with a grease pencil be used during play?

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2009, 08:32:00 AM »

I do not think so. Any foreign substance on the surface is forbidden, even grease pencil markings. But you might mark the PAP with scratches/engravings before competition starts, that would IMO be allowed?
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azus · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2009, 08:36:51 AM »

quote:
I do not think so. Any foreign substance on the surface is forbidden, even grease pencil markings. But you might mark the PAP with scratches/engravings before competition starts, that would IMO be allowed?

People have drilled a hole on their pap, then plugged that hole with a colour different than the coverstock of that ball.
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I like my coffee black, just like my metal.
What would Chuck Norris do?
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')
Cute Bunny! copy bunny into sig to help him achieve world domination

chitown · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2009, 10:11:13 AM »

quote:
quote:
I do not think so. Any foreign substance on the surface is forbidden, even grease pencil markings. But you might mark the PAP with scratches/engravings before competition starts, that would IMO be allowed?

People have drilled a hole on their pap, then plugged that hole with a colour different than the coverstock of that ball.
--------------------
I like my coffee black, just like my metal.
What would Chuck Norris do?
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')
Cute Bunny! copy bunny into sig to help him achieve world domination

I don't think i'd go that far but watching your PAP does help read the what the patterns doing!

batbowler · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2009, 10:16:55 AM »

Foreign substance? I guess when I bowl and crap from the machines end up on the ball, then I can't use the ball? Just a thought! If you practice with a round sticker on your pap then you get use to the look of the ball and the markingsgrips, thumb slugs, lettering, etc.... That will tell you more about your release and you don't have to plug the ball or worry about putting a foreign substance on it! Just my $.02, Bruce
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"Train a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will "BOWL UP A STORM AND BE KING OF THEM ALL" and not turn from it."

janderson · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2009, 11:38:38 AM »

quote:
I don't think i'd go that far but watching your PAP does help read the what the patterns doing!

How so?
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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

janderson · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2009, 12:11:42 PM »

You can change rotational axis without changing PAP. Alternately, You can also change tilt without changing PAP.

Even if my release is consistently uniform, I can uniformly throw it in the left gutter on one shot and the right gutter on the next.

What does that tell me about lane conditions?

Please keep the board lurkers in mind. I don't want them to be lulled into a false sense of security that if their marked PAP doesn't appear to change on any given shot then everything is good.

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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

chitown · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2009, 12:13:57 PM »

quote:
quote:
I don't think i'd go that far but watching your PAP does help read the what the patterns doing!

How so?
--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

I bowl on very tough patterns all season long. It's very important to know as much about the pattern as possible. It's important to know how your ball reaction is changing during play.

I'm not concerned with seeing if I rolled the ball correctly. I'm concerned with how the reaction is changing on different parts of the lane. Im interested in knowing if the oil is carrying down. I would rather make adjustments and stay ahead of the changing lane pattern than wait for my ball to go high into the head pin or slide thru the break point because I didn't adjust quick enough.

Having a piece of white tape on your pap makes it a lot easier to see what's going on. Sometimes it's really difficult to see if your ball is only going thru 2 phases of ball reaction before hitting the pocket causing you to leave corner pins.

chitown · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2009, 12:25:07 PM »

quote:
You can change rotational axis without changing PAP. Alternately, You can also change tilt without changing PAP.

Even if my release is consistently uniform, I can uniformly throw it in the left gutter on one shot and the right gutter on the next.

What does that tell me about lane conditions?

Please keep the board lurkers in mind. I don't want them to be lulled into a false sense of security that if their marked PAP doesn't appear to change on any given shot then everything is good.

--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

Watching your PAP can tell you how long the pattern is. Watching your pap can tell you if the ball your using is skidding too long and not getting into it's roll quick enough.

Some bowling balls covertocks make it difficult to see if the ball is going into it's hook phase.

Im not saying that white tape on your pap is the end all be all to reading lane patterns. Im saying it makes it a hell of a lot easier to see what the ball is doing on a given lane pattern.

Edited on 1/6/2009 1:27 PM

janderson · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2009, 12:32:13 PM »

quote:
Having a piece of white tape on your pap makes it a lot easier to see what's going on. Sometimes it's really difficult to see if your ball is only going thru 2 phases of ball reaction before hitting the pocket causing you to leave corner pins.

Now that, indeed, is a valuable piece of information, but you still haven't answered the question of how. A piece of white tap on the PAP of a flaring ball will migrate from its starting position. What are the visual clues from the white tape that tell you the ball has stopped skidding and has started hooking? Stopped hooking and started rolling? How does that change on a non-flaring ball? Low flaring ball?

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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

chitown · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2009, 01:20:52 PM »

quote:
quote:
Having a piece of white tape on your pap makes it a lot easier to see what's going on. Sometimes it's really difficult to see if your ball is only going thru 2 phases of ball reaction before hitting the pocket causing you to leave corner pins.

Now that, indeed, is a valuable piece of information, but you still haven't answered the question of how. A piece of white tap on the PAP of a flaring ball will migrate from its starting position. What are the visual clues from the white tape that tell you the ball has stopped skidding and has started hooking? Stopped hooking and started rolling? How does that change on a non-flaring ball? Low flaring ball?

--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

Are you asking because you don't know what to look for?

Do you remember playing with spinning tops when you were a kid? Imagine the bowlers pap on a bowling ball being the top part of the spinning top. When the top is first spun it will be tight and as the top slows down it will being to wobble and eventually stop spinning. When the bowling is released down the lane the PAP is spinning in a tight circle. As the ball goes into it's hook phases the PAP will begin to wobble. From the hook phase we go into the roll phase of ball reaction. The roll phase would be the top stopping!

I hope this analogy helps.

1. When a ball is skidding the piece of white tape on the PAP will appear not to move or be spinning in place. Kind of like a top spinning around during it's high rotation. This is the skid phase of ball reaction.

2. When a ball goes from skid phase into the hook phase it starts losing it's axis rotation and tilt. You can see this by watching the piece of white tape. Unlike the skid phase where the white tape appears to be spinning in place like a top, the hook phase will cause the white tape to have the appearance of a wobble like a top does when it slows down.

3. From the hook phase the ball goes into it's roll. This happens when the ball loses it's axis rotation and tilt. The hook phase and roll phase happen quick. You can see this easily with a piece of white tape on your pap. You will see the piece of white tape look like it's in a wobble but you will notice the ball turn forward. You will see the white tape turn which makes it very easy to tell the ball is going into it's roll.

On my plastic spare ball I placed a piece of white tape on my pap. The ball stayed in it's skid phase the entire time!

On my heavy oil strike ball I placed a piece of white tape on my pap. The ball was in it's skid phase almost 40ft down lane before it's started into it's hook phase and then into it's roll and into the pocket.

On my light oil reactive ball I placed a piece of white tape on my pap. The ball went into it's skid phase a couple feet further than my heavy oil strike ball. My light oil reactive ball went into it's hook phase and hit the pins never getting into it's roll.

All three balls were obviously rolled on the same pattern and lanes.

Are you looking for more detail than that?

A43 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2009, 01:39:19 PM »

>On my plastic spare ball I placed a piece of white tape on my pap. The ball stayed in it's skid phase the entire time!<

Here is a good video of this (soccer ball). It has some good short videos of ball motion and releases as well.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/kVideo.htm

chitown · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2009, 01:43:41 PM »

quote:
>On my plastic spare ball I placed a piece of white tape on my pap. The ball stayed in it's skid phase the entire time!<

Here is a good video of this (soccer ball). It has some good short videos of ball motion and releases as well.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/kVideo.htm

Great vid!

On the pattern I was talking about, my plastic ball went dead straight. I was bowling on a heavier, longer pattern though. It did what I expected it to do.

Now on typical reactive ball that has a stronger flare layout, your going to see the tape really wobble a lot compared to the vid of the soccer ball.

Again great vid!

Edited on 1/6/2009 2:52 PM

JohnP · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2009, 02:25:01 PM »

The track flare makes the PAP "wobble". A ball can flare as soon as it hits the lane, while it's still skidding. In fact, a ball with a high RG diff drilled aggressively can flare in the air before it even hits the lane, I've seen it. You can get visual information from a marker on a ball, but I think you're trying to read too much into what you're seeing. -- JohnP

DP3 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2009, 02:41:56 PM »

If you can read a lane based on flare migration alone, I think the USBC has some openings in their tech analysis department because I had no clue that was possible.
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-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop. AMF Bowie Lanes -- Bowie, MD

Author Topic: question about pap markings on a ball during competition. (Read 2441 times)

chitown

question about pap markings on a ball during competition.

dizzyfugu

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azus

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chitown

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batbowler

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janderson

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janderson

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chitown

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chitown

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janderson

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chitown

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A43

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chitown

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JohnP

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DP3

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