Author Topic: Ron C...You were right... (Read 4718 times)

DukeHarding · « **on:** December 14, 2005, 08:26:47 AM »

I am a BIG CHICKEN.

You had recommended 3/8 forward in the thumb, to alleviate my problem with the skin peeling off the back of my thumb, when using Magic Carpet.

I plugged an old ball that had 1/8 reverse, 1/8 left lateral in the thumb.
I told my driller to put 1/4 forward in the ball, as I thought that it was really pushing the forward pitch to an extreme. He thought 1/4 forward was extreme, and recommended 1/8 forward. I went with 1/4 forward.

I picked the ball up Monday night...put a sleeve in the thumb hole, installed a piece of MC...and went out to practice with the nall today. I remembered what you said about not squeezing the ball. I took my catcher's mask with, just in case, I did squeeze the ball...I didn't need it.

It took a game to get used to the pitch, and relax my hand.
I had no trouble at all coming out of the ball. My practice partner said it was the cleanest he had seen my release in years. Funny thing is: I could go an 1/8 more forward in the thumb. I found I was squeezing the ball a little tiny bit.

I also want to publicly thank you, for the quick service, sending out the "lost" Magic Carpet shipment...You are A+ in my book.
My practice partner put a piece of Magic Carpet in his ball, and liked it...He likes the whole Magic Carpet concept...makes sense.

On Edit:

I'm using BLUE Vise Skin Protection tape. I super glue the end to my thumb nail, and stretch the tape tight down the thumb 3/4" past the beginning of the thumb (towards the hand), stopped the redness, and tearing totally.

--------------------
Duke Harding
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bowling Coaches Web Site Link

"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty.
Anyone who keeps learning stays young.
The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young." -- Henry Ford

Edited on 12/14/2005 6:00 PM

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #31 on:** December 16, 2005, 05:16:56 PM »

Though I don't use it...forward pitch...well I can sort of about 1/16.

Ron C is correct. I attended a Bill Taylor Seminar and he said just that...go forward and back. He stated his 63 degree tables were a good starting point and that many experienced bowlers go forward.

He also stated that Mike Durbin(a student at that time) did some of his best bowling in the 1/2 forward area.

He also still explained that the 63 degree tables mean very long spans hardly ever get to forward. Forward is not the goal. Forward of the tables is usually a place many good bowlers get too...but it is flexibility driven.

On the flip side I have a good friend that went dramatically forward along the matter described above and then backed off.

Under pressure he would tighten up and slightly hand and get near knuckleballs.

We got him back still more forward than tables but just slightly and his considerable average has risen quite a bit with a few other changes.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS the view of a trained pro like Ron(Magic C) tells all. Remember Forward get s the thumb to come out slower. Reverse faster. Same with fingers. The timing of the two elements is key....if thumb is coming out too slow and fingers too fast one can almost get a tie between thumb fingers timing. One might as well be throwing a conventional. I had a friend recently with decent revs...no backend. We noticed hand was jammed in ball(very short and overrelaxed span). Thumb and fingers both coming out of ball at same time. Lengthened span 1/8(still a relaxed fingertip)...increased reverse 1/16...and the result of thumb and then finger release happened and voila revs and backend dramatically increased. He is scaring everyone in the area with his improved ball roll ie the goal is not FORWARD Pitch...the goal is proper timing between the thumb and fingers for what you are trying to achieve with ball roll!

PPS ie super high backswings et al and downward forces at release. Jason Couch's pitches were in AMERICAN bowler about 3 years ago. In it he stated because of incredibly high backswing he needed forward way in front of the tables to hold on to the ball until the time he wanted to release...I think his span was near 4 1/2 and pitch like 7/16 forward. Tables say 1/8 reverse. All in what goal or timing you are trying to achieve in YOUR release!
--------------------
Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year! Don't bowl me the second two games though! (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)

Edited on 12/16/2005 6:18 PM

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #32 on:** December 19, 2005, 11:04:05 AM »

I wanted to discuss RonC's comments about the shape of the hand and where one's thumb is in relation to holding the hand in a ball shaped cup posiition.

Please note that the tables are designed for a position of 63 degrees. This 63 degree angle is measured as an angle of a straight line from the front edge of fingers to the thumb hole and then the angle is measured between the front edge of thumbhole and this line.

It is easy to see that this is nowhere near 90 degrees ie thumb pointing backwards. In fact it is over 45 degrees and way less than 90 degrees. One must realize that if one has a 3 1/2 inch span then the tables say forward reverse for the thumb should be ....
3/8 forward. 4 inch span tables say 1/8 forward.

If one looks at their hand one sees that a natural ball shaped cup with a staright wrist..(just held in air) puts ones thumb more than 45 degrees and way less than 90...somewhere near 60 degrees. 60 degrees on a 4 1/2 inch span is about 0 pitch.. When one takes their hand and goes more forward of the 60 degree angle area(say near 45) I feel cramped just holding my hand in the air.

A hand held in the greater than 45 degree but way less than 90 degrees(thumb to hand body position ends up very similar very similar to the thumb angle the tables would place in the ball.

Now for a competing method...That says forward reverse span should be based on one factor...thumb flexibility... See my
Bunneta Method post .

This is actually similar but different than what Ron is saying. The Bunneta method puts a person no matter what span is with always the same thumb position based on one thumb test for forward reverse.

REgards,

Luckylefty

This met
--------------------
Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year! Don't bowl me the second two games though! (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)

Edited on 12/19/2005 11:54 AM

Edited on 12/19/2005 11:57 AM

Author Topic: Ron C...You were right... (Read 4718 times)

DukeHarding

Ron C...You were right...

LuckyLefty

Re: Ron C...You were right...

LuckyLefty

Re: Ron C...You were right...