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Author Topic: Rules Infraction? How to handle?  (Read 15505 times)

MTFD24

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Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« on: September 23, 2014, 09:36:31 AM »
A bowler "pounds" a rosin bag on his ball at the ball return prior to bowling. This creates a lot of rosin on his ball about the thumb and finger holes, and literally on about a third of his ball surface. (Assuredly some is also falling on the floor as well).

He then wipes his hand over the top of the ball (by the thumb and finger holes), and then wipes his hand on his slide sole of his shoes.

Several bowlers have questioned this, as since he does not use a towel to wipe off the ball, there most likely rosin being transferred onto the lane. But the bigger concern is some feel that he could be altering the approaches, or creating an issue for others with rosin on the floor.

Personally I could care less other than possibly being a safety issue of others slipping or sticking on the approaches.

I greatly appreciate any insight, rules, etc.
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2014, 09:53:29 AM »
Where is the owner of the house in this situation?
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Gene J Kanak

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2014, 10:00:15 AM »
Basically, this always comes down to whether or not someone (or a group of people) is willing to step up to call him out for what he is doing. At the very least, if he is putting powder on his shoes, he is in fact altering the approach surface for other competitors, which is a violation of playing rules (and most centers' individual rules as well). If they want to call him on it, by rule, he has to stop. Now, obviously, some people get really grouchy about being called out like that, so you and your fellow bowlers will have to weigh out whether or not the resulting approach conditions are being changed to the point that it's worth the potential fireworks that follow the confrontation. If this is a nice, easy-going guy, it's probably not going to lead to much. If he's a meathead, muscle-bound tool, he may be ready to smack someone upside the head with a bowling ball for telling him he can't use his powder anymore. In that case, you may want to have security standing by when someone informs him that he has to stop. It's for this reason that I like what my center has done. They just installed new lanes, and they have posted signs all over the setee area stating that rosin, easy-slide, abralon, etc. (basically anything powdery or capable of making the area powdery) is forbidden from that area. At least then it's the bowling center's policy as opposed to an individual gripe. Good luck either way. 

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 10:08:30 AM »
I'd probably just bring it to the attention of the owner of the center and the league officers.....let them confront him from a policy/rule standpoint thereby avoiding the "emotional shit" (you all know "those people" that take things personal when confronted with facts) all together...
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spmcgivern

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 10:10:53 AM »
The way I understand the rule, any substance that gets transferred to the cover of the ball, in this case rosin, must be completely removed before the ball is used.  Not sure if just wiping your hand over the ball counts.  As an owner, I would DEFINITELY make sure the bowlers were not transferring foreign substances to the lanes.  Only causes problems.

When it comes to the shoes, as long as what he is doing does not affect the other bowlers, then in theory it is not illegal.  However, it may be a case of the bowler using the incorrect method to achieve what he wants.  Can't imagine a scenario where I would want rosin on the sole of my shoe.  All it takes is one person to claim his actions are affecting his approach and he would have to stop.

charlest

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 10:54:35 AM »
A teammate of mine used to do something similar every shot: rosin just all over the ball. It was quite messy. He never wiped it off. One day someone told him and now he just uses his towel to wipe it off. He just didn't know. he had no porblem with wiping the ball off.

Most people are very reasonable when it comes to doing what they're supposed to do.

You'd be shocked at how many people do not know the actual rules and regulations. They go solely by previous experience or what they think might be the rules.

Just yesterday I was showing a long time acquaintance my LMB International cleaner and how well it worked and how tacky it left the ball. I then told him it was even approved for use DURING bowling. He was shocked that any cleaner was permitted during bowling. He is a PBA member and has been bowling for at least 40 years, probably more.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 11:08:36 AM »
1. Rosin all over the ball is not only illegal, but it will change the oil pattern in a hurry.
2. Rosin on the shoe is going to transfer to the approach, which will cause someone to stick, thus hurting themselves.

Inform the gentleman about the rules infraction. He just may be ignorant to the rules. If he continues to do it after the rules have been mentioned to him, then it's time to have a talk with the president or owner.

MTFD24

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 11:54:20 AM »
The first issue is that this is an AMF house so there is none, if any assistance from the house. The second issue is that the offending bowler was informed at the end of last season of the issues, but now is back to his "old ways".

Many now want to address this through the league president, and would like to have actual rule numbers to substantiate the infractions, before someone would possibly get hurt. That being either from the approach issues, or from the bowlers father being a "jerk" and not seeing that his son is not above the rules.

I am going to see if I can obtain an actual physical USBC rule book, and find the rules to quote. So far I can not find much via Bowl.com

I do know of several centers that actually have "banned" rosin bags, etc from the settee areas due to these issues, and even some tournaments also ban them in those areas.

Oh, BTW, the father also boldly states that vent holes are now illegal for bowling balls...and he DOES know ALL THE RULES!
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014, 12:35:11 PM »
The first issue is that this is an AMF house so there is none, if any assistance from the house. The second issue is that the offending bowler was informed at the end of last season of the issues, but now is back to his "old ways".

Many now want to address this through the league president, and would like to have actual rule numbers to substantiate the infractions, before someone would possibly get hurt. That being either from the approach issues, or from the bowlers father being a "jerk" and not seeing that his son is not above the rules.

I am going to see if I can obtain an actual physical USBC rule book, and find the rules to quote. So far I can not find much via Bowl.com

I do know of several centers that actually have "banned" rosin bags, etc from the settee areas due to these issues, and even some tournaments also ban them in those areas.

Oh, BTW, the father also boldly states that vent holes are now illegal for bowling balls...and he DOES know ALL THE RULES!

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/rulebook/USBC2013_14Rulebook.pdf

Rule 12, PDF page 15-16

"Commercial products, talcum powder or any substance applied to the shoe or approach could be in violation of Rule 12. If a league participant uses a substance and somebody complains that it prohibits him/her from having normal conditions, the league officer should require the individual to immediately stop his/her action. If the individual refuses, his/her games are subject to forfeiture."

Still looking for your rule on rosin being on the ball surface......I don't do it (b/c I have a proper fit  :P j/k) but I do believe it is a point of emphasis (well watching for it at least) in Reno.

EDIT:  "I use rosin or powder in my gripping holes. Do I need to wipe my ball after every use?
Yes. Rosin and powder are considered foreign substances and must be wiped off completely before making a delivery. In addition, these substances may be only used as a gripping aid and may not be placed anywhere else on the ball surface."

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/rulebook/Rulebook_rev041310/Commonly_Asked_Questions.htm
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tuckinfenpin

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 03:54:39 PM »
If there are concerns from multiple teams and if the same person was addressed last year for the same thing, it needs to be addressed.

USBC rules or not, if there is potential for injury and it is nothing is being said before someone gets hurt, something is wrong with that, IMO.

It sounds like there are others with the same concern. Bring them together, address the league president and have it corrected before someone gets injured.   


SrKegler

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 06:50:35 PM »
Had the same problem years ago. Guy kept getting rosin on the approach.  After numerous attempts to get him to stop, we simply had the lane cleaned every frame after he bowled.  Lane mechanic was in on our plans and would take 10-15 minutes to get the supplies and clean the approach.  Needless to say, the league finished quite late.  Took about 2 frames into the second week before he decided it wasn't worth it and started being considerate with the rosin.

Sometimes you have to treat bowlers like kids.
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axeweldr

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2014, 07:09:48 PM »
A few years ago we were bowing a team with this kid.  He was having problem sliding so he used a ton of easy slide, on his shoe and had it all over the settee area.  it was so bad that no one but him was in the area.  We all had to stand behind the area. It was ridiculous!  The kids father was absolutely livid with him.  Made for a horrible night on the lanes.
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MTFD24

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2014, 07:22:03 PM »
The USBC was quick to respond, and here is the response (some of which was already supplied by BR members.

This is in reference to your e-mail of September 23, 2014.

 

The first issue is the rosin on the bowling ball.

 

It is permissible to use a rosin bag provided the substance does not come out of the pad onto the ball.

 

If the rosin comes out of the pad and onto the ball, it must be removed so it does not violate the specification, "no foreign material may be placed on the outer surface of the ball."

 

This can be found in Chapter 8 section 4 under Bowling ball surface specification of the 2014/2015 USBC Rule Book.

 

“4b No foreign material may be placed on the outer surface of the ball.”

 

Therefore, if any powder gets onto the ball it must be wiped off with a towel before a delivery.

 

USBC allows the league officials to determine whether or not the bowler is in violation of the rule.

 

If a league official encounters someone applying rosin or any other substance to the outside of the bowling ball, a warning should be issued to the bowler. The ball must be either cleaned of all residue or be removed from the competition. If the bowler complies, all games bowled prior to that time would stand as bowled, and there would be no penalty as long as the bowler complies with the rule.

 

The exception, if the bowler had prior knowledge that this was a violation or the competition had a rule that covered this matter.

 

If the bowler was aware the ball did not meet specifications or continues to use the ball without properly removing all the residue, then the games bowled with the ball are subject to forfeiture.

 

In regards to the rosin on the floor, USBC rule 12 states, " the application of any foreign substance on any part of the approach that detracts from the possibility of other players having normal conditions is prohibited. This included, but is not limited to, such substance as talcum powder, pumice and resin on shoes; also soft rubber soles or heels that rub off on the approach."

 

Rosin or any substance that is applied to the shoe could be in violation of  rule 12.  If a league participant uses these products and somebody complains that it prohibits them from having normal conditions, the officers of the league should  request the bowler to stop using the substance.

 

If a complaint is filed and league official determines the bowler is in violation of rule 12, they should require the individual to immediately stop their action. If the individual refuses, his/her games are subject to forfeiture and they can be dismissed from the league.

 

If you have questions regarding this information, please feel free to contact me.

 

 

John Budnik

Rules Counselor

(o) (817) 385-8391 | (f) (817) 385 -8260

John.budnik@bowl.com

 

United States Bowling Congress

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MTFD24

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2014, 08:54:17 AM »
UPDATE....Before league last night, the offending bowlers team captain approached me and we had quite the chat. He admittedly hadn't realized that this was occurring (hard to believe) and said he told the bowler to quit the practices.

The bowler (on the pair next to us) not only did not only stop pounding the rosin bag all over the ball, but never even to the finger or thumb holes. He even used a towel to wipe his ball completely before every shot.

This bowler (20 year old) went through 6 balls last night trying to score. He only once broke 200 (a 203), where as he has a 220+ average. Was this now a mental issue, or that he couldn't "groove" out a shot? There were plenty of high scores everywhere, even on his pair, and by his team.

At least for the time being the safety of not having rosin all over the settee, approaches and onto the lanes seems to have happened. Time will tell, but quite a few thanked me, including his captain, the league president.

If I saved one injury to someone I will be content.

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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Rules Infraction? How to handle?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2014, 09:07:57 AM »
There you go, situation is resolved.

At this point, if the "offender" (for lack of a better term) has an issue w/it, it is an issue w/the rules.

Just for the sake of my own entertainment, I do wonder why the guy had this practice of doing it?  What would make someone cake rosin on everything and how is one not aware of how dumb the idea of throwing a ball w/rosin all over it is?  I guess I just want to know his logic.........
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