Author Topic: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today (Read 6997 times)

Russell · « **on:** December 23, 2010, 09:51:01 AM »

**ON EDIT - This post is directed at the idiots who complained...NOT Brunswick...I think Brunswick is great, especially this center where I ran the shop years ago**

So today I went and practiced around lunchtime. I''m going to the desk to shovel over some free game passes when a sign posted catches my eye.

"We''ve listened to your feedback. A number of you have stated you would practice more if the lanes weren''t so dry. So starting Jan 4th we will be stripping and oiling the lanes twice daily, in the morning and in the evenings before league"

So....let me make sure I understand...

I have bowled in this house for years. The shot is NEVER very dry after league is done at night. At worst I am playing around 17/18 at the arrows in a 5 man team men''s league. There is PLENTY of oil....

So now to be able to "practice"...we need to be able to play the same line we''re playing in league...all of the time?

We wonder why competitive bowling is going in the p**ser? People won''t "practice"...because the lanes are dry? So practice is just chucking your new hook-in-a-box hard and fast up 9 and quitting after 4 games when it dries up?

Can''t believe people actually b**ch about this stuff....

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Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Edited on 12/24/2010 9:30 AM

Nicanor · « **Reply #46 on:** December 27, 2010, 08:34:34 AM »

The shot is never the same. Maybe the first few frames, but different teans will break a lane down differently as you will while practicing.

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #47 on:** December 27, 2010, 08:45:12 AM »

quote:
What is there to practice if the shot is always the same?

I take two balls to league .. sometimes in the three games I just never get comfortable. Maybe score acceptable .. but don't get comfortable. Perhaps before I go back to league again I'd like to bowl on the same condition (or at least close to it) and try a different ball(s). Therefore I can understand the request!

quote:
"We''ve listened to your feedback. A number of you have stated you would practice more if the lanes weren''t so dry. So starting Jan 4th we will be stripping and oiling the lanes twice daily, in the morning and in the evenings before league"

Russell · « **Reply #48 on:** December 27, 2010, 10:04:44 AM »

This is where the game has lost the average bowler. You don't need the "specific" shot you bowl league on to see what a ball will do. Yes you need something playable, but not perfect to see the shape it makes.

If you get a new set of irons in golf you go to the driving range to hit them. You don't need to stand on the tee of the par 3 12th hole and hit 100 balls with an 8 iron to make sure that it works in competition. You can use the relative factors at the range to make a determination.

We're spoiled...that's what all of these balls have done to us. Now when the center has to raise lineage another .50 next season to cover the double in lane oil and conditioner being used...the bowlers will b**ch about it.
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Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #49 on:** December 27, 2010, 10:22:55 AM »

quote:
same condition (or at least close to it)

Agreed!

RyanRPS · « **Reply #50 on:** December 27, 2010, 10:28:19 AM »

quote:
If you get a new set of irons in golf you go to the driving range to hit them. You don't need to stand on the tee of the par 3 12th hole and hit 100 balls with an 8 iron to make sure that it works in competition. You can use the relative factors at the range to make a determination.

The golf analagy is not a good one... with your new set of irons you just want to see how they feel in your hand and how far you hit the ball... the terrain you are hitting the balls over makes no difference at all... with bowling balls the terrain you are throwing them on is EVERYTHING when testing a ball...

unless you are simply practising your mechanics or "challenging yourself" on whatever condition is down, you really need a decent amount of oil down or a decent shot..

Ryan
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Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

Russell · « **Reply #51 on:** December 27, 2010, 12:43:44 PM »

quote:
quote:
If you get a new set of irons in golf you go to the driving range to hit them. You don't need to stand on the tee of the par 3 12th hole and hit 100 balls with an 8 iron to make sure that it works in competition. You can use the relative factors at the range to make a determination.

The golf analagy is not a good one... with your new set of irons you just want to see how they feel in your hand and how far you hit the ball... the terrain you are hitting the balls over makes no difference at all... with bowling balls the terrain you are throwing them on is EVERYTHING when testing a ball...

unless you are simply practising your mechanics or "challenging yourself" on whatever condition is down, you really need a decent amount of oil down or a decent shot..

Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

Actually it's exactly the same. You don't need league shot to see what your ball does. The "league shot" is nothing more than a puddle and dry. If you bowl on something that is drier...you'll still see what the ball does when it experiences friction. It will just be in a different part of the lane.

This is where bowling is completely losing the average bowler. Balls don't magically act different when they are thrown over 3rd arrow instead of 2nd. We think we need a special ball to play "inside"...or "the gutter". Reality is you pick something that transitions well depending on the volume loads and make good shots.

The ball of the month club won't understand this concept...as they are convinced there is a ball that they can stand on 21 with their feet and always play 12 to 8...never having to move.
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Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

mainzer · « **Reply #52 on:** December 27, 2010, 12:52:29 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
If you get a new set of irons in golf you go to the driving range to hit them. You don't need to stand on the tee of the par 3 12th hole and hit 100 balls with an 8 iron to make sure that it works in competition. You can use the relative factors at the range to make a determination.

The golf analagy is not a good one... with your new set of irons you just want to see how they feel in your hand and how far you hit the ball... the terrain you are hitting the balls over makes no difference at all... with bowling balls the terrain you are throwing them on is EVERYTHING when testing a ball...

unless you are simply practising your mechanics or "challenging yourself" on whatever condition is down, you really need a decent amount of oil down or a decent shot..

Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

Actually it's exactly the same. You don't need league shot to see what your ball does. The "league shot" is nothing more than a puddle and dry. If you bowl on something that is drier...you'll still see what the ball does when it experiences friction. It will just be in a different part of the lane.

This is where bowling is completely losing the average bowler. Balls don't magically act different when they are thrown over 3rd arrow instead of 2nd. We think we need a special ball to play "inside"...or "the gutter". Reality is you pick something that transitions well depending on the volume loads and make good shots.

The ball of the month club won't understand this concept...as they are convinced there is a ball that they can stand on 21 with their feet and always play 12 to 8...never having to move.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

But the THS in some ways is the "control" of the experiment. PBA Patterns vary to great degrees. A burned out THS also can be drastically different than a fresh THS Due to carry down, how many games were bowled, what type of bowlers, What type of gear, etc.

Bowling on a fresh THS Lets me know what I can expect to see on other patterns/houses/lane surfaces. Stuff like length, flip from different break points, compatibility to different hand positions, overall hook.

Your last paragraph sounds somewhat elitist, their are more ways of looking at the issue than just your own. I respect your opinion but, Not everyone will think your way is right or understand it, just like you may not understand other peoples ways.

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"Complexity lay within the artistry of execution"

+++Henry Zou+++

Founding FatherBR Inquisition
MainzerPower

RyanRPS · « **Reply #53 on:** December 27, 2010, 12:53:18 PM »

Russell, i'm talking about oil in general... i dont mean you need to play on a league shot, or the same shot as your league shot, just that if the lanes are too dry its pretty pointless practising.

For an example of where I am coming from, our league pattern is about 3.5:1 ratio and about 38ft long.. the "public" pattern put down on days where there is no league is 20ft long and pretty lightly oiled. It is completely pointless trying to practise on a 20ft pattern as you will learn nothing about your shot past the release on a pattern so short and dry.

Ryan
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Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

Russell · « **Reply #54 on:** December 27, 2010, 01:01:10 PM »

quote:

But the THS in some ways is the "control" of the experiment. PBA Patterns vary to great degrees. A burned out THS also can be drastically different than a fresh THS Due to carry down, how many games were bowled, what type of bowlers, What type of gear, etc.

Bowling on a fresh THS Lets me know what I can expect to see on other patterns/houses/lane surfaces. Stuff like length, flip from different break points, compatibility to different hand positions, overall hook.

Your last paragraph sounds somewhat elitist, their are more ways of looking at the issue than just your own. I respect your opinion but, Not everyone will think your way is right or understand it, just like you may not understand other peoples ways.

I understand your point if we're talking about the charred remains of Friday night open play, but in the case made here the center uses great oil and puts down plenty of volume in the middle. The lanes do not get that dry even on 2 shifts of league.

I don't see where it's "elitist" that I think I'm right. As a former member of the club that thought lanes sucked whenever my ball went through the nose when I was playing 10 at the arrows...I just know the mentality. I used to think that any lane that wouldn't let me pipe it down the track was horrible. I learned that wasn't how the game is, but know there are people that still think that way, and unfortunately many of them post on here.

It doesn't make me an "elitist"...I'm just speaking from experience. I don't think I'm better than anyone...I just want the sport of bowling to prosper and grow.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Russell · « **Reply #55 on:** December 27, 2010, 01:05:23 PM »

quote:
Russell, i'm talking about oil in general... i dont mean you need to play on a league shot, or the same shot as your league shot, just that if the lanes are too dry its pretty pointless practising.

Again...please read where I explained that this house the lanes NEVER get "charred". I've bowled here for years and the shot is ALWAYS playable for anyone willing to move their feet left a few boards.

quote:
For an example of where I am coming from, our league pattern is about 3.5:1 ratio and about 38ft long.. the "public" pattern put down on days where there is no league is 20ft long and pretty lightly oiled. It is completely pointless trying to practise on a 20ft pattern as you will learn nothing about your shot past the release on a pattern so short and dry.

I'd love to know a house that puts out a 20 foot pattern....at any time. I'd also love to know where a house that puts down a 3.5:1 pattern is. I severely doubt ANY house shot anymore is anything less than 8:1. Either the house shot has about 16 units in the middle, which is almost nothing...or you have a PBA pattern like the Viper out there for league.

Just not buying it...
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Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #56 on:** December 27, 2010, 01:41:00 PM »

I can see both sides of the argument here. I can see where Russell is coming from from a pro style bowlers mentality. In order to get better and make it to the next level, you have to bowl on stuff out of the comfort zone.

On the flip side, the casual league bowler have lower rev rates and probably wont be playing inside 4th arrow anytime in this lifetime. They bowl on a particular shot and want to practice more on it so they can get better on that shot.

IMO....in order to really get some good feedback, you need some oil on the lanes. Drier shots dont bother me as much but if you are out spending $4.00+ a game to practice and your ball hooks as soon as it hits the lanes, there isnt much of a chance to get some good feedback on the changes you may be trying to make. If the heads are completely fried, doesnt matter what hand change you make, the ball is going to check up quickly. The casual league bowler isnt going to be in front of the ball return and lofting the first 5 feet of the gutter.

So my assessment is this: for those that want to tune their games for tougher conditions, you probably already know which center(s) dont cater to the serious bowler and only oil their lanes once in awhile. For those that dont care to make it to the next level but still want to improve one or more parts of their game, nothing wrong with placing a call into the center to see when the last time they put oil down. There is no reason why the sport cant cater to both types of bowlers.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

RyanRPS · « **Reply #57 on:** December 27, 2010, 02:39:36 PM »

quote:

I'd love to know a house that puts out a 20 foot pattern....at any time. I'd also love to know where a house that puts down a 3.5:1 pattern is. I severely doubt ANY house shot anymore is anything less than 8:1. Either the house shot has about 16 units in the middle, which is almost nothing...or you have a PBA pattern like the Viper out there for league.

Just not buying it...

Russell, Im in Ireland, we do things a little different over here lol

the 20ft "public" pattern is just that, oil put down to protect the lanes for public bowlers using house balls... this is the way the lanes are oiled 6 days a week.

And TBH im not 100% sure on the current league pattern ratios.. they are usually 4:1 max here... last printout I say was 10 units on the outside and 32 at the wettest part in the centre...

Ryan
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Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

trash heap · « **Reply #58 on:** December 27, 2010, 03:41:05 PM »

Its all about running a business. If there are regular league bowlers wanting to play with their new toys, sure oil the lanes. It's about doing business. If those bowlers stop showing up....stop putting the oil down. Not worth time.

Running a bowling center has to be tough. You probably here more complaining in this business than any other.

Russell · « **Reply #59 on:** December 27, 2010, 03:43:53 PM »

quote:
quote:

I'd love to know a house that puts out a 20 foot pattern....at any time. I'd also love to know where a house that puts down a 3.5:1 pattern is. I severely doubt ANY house shot anymore is anything less than 8:1. Either the house shot has about 16 units in the middle, which is almost nothing...or you have a PBA pattern like the Viper out there for league.

Just not buying it...

Russell, Im in Ireland, we do things a little different over here lol

the 20ft "public" pattern is just that, oil put down to protect the lanes for public bowlers using house balls... this is the way the lanes are oiled 6 days a week.

And TBH im not 100% sure on the current league pattern ratios.. they are usually 4:1 max here... last printout I say was 10 units on the outside and 32 at the wettest part in the centre...

Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com

Okay I retract my statements...I can understand them being different in areas outside of the US. Generally bowlers are so spoiled here they won't bowl on anything that doesn't walk the ball to the pocket.
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Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Russell · « **Reply #60 on:** December 27, 2010, 03:46:05 PM »

quote:
Its all about running a business. If there are regular league bowlers wanting to play with their new toys, sure oil the lanes. It's about doing business. If those bowlers stop showing up....stop putting the oil down. Not worth time.

Running a bowling center has to be tough. You probably here more complaining in this business than any other.

I agree with you 100%...but the problem is the cost now. Lineage is getting more and more expensive, and centers are catering less and less to league play because of the cost. Now having to oil the lanes another 300 times a year is going to cost the center many THOUSANDS of dollars in man hours, lane conditioner, and cleaner.

We're just slowly putting the nails in the coffin of our sport....it's not Brunswick's fault...it's our fault.
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Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Author Topic: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today (Read 6997 times)

Russell

Sign seen in a Brunswick center today

Nicanor

Re: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today

JOE FALCO

Re: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today

Russell

Re: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today

JOE FALCO

Re: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today

RyanRPS

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Russell

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mainzer

Re: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today

RyanRPS

Re: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today

Russell

Re: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today

Russell

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TWOHAND834

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RyanRPS

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trash heap

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Russell

Re: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today

Russell

Re: Sign seen in a Brunswick center today