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Author Topic: So renegade leagues is the new sandbagging now  (Read 12582 times)

Aloarjr810

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So renegade leagues is the new sandbagging now
« on: August 20, 2012, 10:13:01 PM »
Was reading a thread with a complaint about how a high average team on a big money league, dropped out one year and bowled on a league that used sport patterns but wasn't sanctioned as a sport league.

Then came back the next year to the big money league with a lower entering average. (They have a cap)

The big money league doesn't allow averages from sanctioned sport leagues, but since that league wasn't sanctioned as a sport league, just as a regular league they had to take them.

And now their crying foul.

I Like that term "Renegade League" a sanctioned league that use's sport/pba patterns but is not sanctioned sport.

All the years everyone complained about the easy league shot and the hi averages, now if you do bowl on a harder shot you might get labeled a sandbagger because your average is lower.

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TWOHAND834

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Re: So renegade leagues is the new sandbagging now
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2012, 11:12:37 AM »
My take on the whole thing is that in money leagues, handicap should either be non existent or be very low.  "Scratch" bowlers have way too much pride to go somewhere and "average" 190 for an entire season because they know they will lose the rear ends money wise.  They always look for money and to win money you have to be at your best.  SO....in my opinion, in MONEY LEAGUES, there should be low to zero handicap and a team average cap entering the season.  For a 4 man team, make the cap 840 and for a 5 man team, make the cap 1050.  If you have any handicap, then base it off of the "average" per bowler on the team (840 by 4 is 210 and so is 1050 by 5).  The higher you base handicaps from, the more you will promote sandbagging.  The scratch bowlers will still show up if there is money to be made.  If the league runs 40 brackets every week, they will show up. 

I remember a friend of mine that bowled in a MIXED trio league that had a cap of I believe 630.  I remember him saying also that in any given night, you could make close to $1000 night in brackets and other side action.  That league also filled pretty close to the entire center. 

I bowled in a league two years ago where a team walks in and wins the first third and then turns around and bags the rest of the season to get as much handicap as possible for the rolloffs.  It wasnt a huge decline in average; but noticable.  Everyone on the team was about 10+ pins down in average at week 34 than where they were at week 12.  The only way to discourage sandbagging is not to give them a reason to.
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David Lee Yskes

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Re: So renegade leagues is the new sandbagging now
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2012, 03:57:04 PM »
 
[/quote]

Because people bowl in tournaments, locally, regionally and nationally using a book average that is based on the league(s), they bowl in.  People who bowl on a tough shot will have a reduced average, and will have more handicap. They will have an "unfair" advantage in handicap tournaments.

Some people will not have the option to bowl in "tougher" league conditions, if the centers in their area don't support that.  And even if they did, it would be hard to find one that does it several nights a week ... because some people don't want to only bowl once a week, and the tournament will only take the highest average.  And what would the average difference be between a center that puts down 30 foot flat, and a one that puts down 40 foot flat or PBAx shots?    How about a reverse block league, ... or a 55 foot shot league?  Would you want to bowl against someone who established an average on a ridiculously hard shot, when you know that on a simple house shot they could easily average 230+, but can't average 200 on the ridiculous conditions?

I go back to my original reply, the USBC does nothing to try to make things equivalent from center to center or league to league.  I give kudo's to the guys who want to be better, or want to be challenged.  I think that is great.  But that doesn't fix the problem with the USBC.

I have been bowling for a long time, just like many here.  I don't spend my time bitching about handicap.  I accept the way things are, and still love to bowl and compete.  I just think there is inequality in bowling that isn't addressed by the USBC and probably never will be.  I don't like it, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying bowling.
[/quote]

ok, so here is another situation you might encounter...

guy 1 bowls once a week in a tougher house... old wood lanes dead side boards and a older oil machine....the oil pattern varies a bit every week because of the lanes and the machine..   even though this guy is very accurate with his shots he just cant seem to get his average over 200...

his average for the year is mid 190's

guy 2, bowls 2 times a week in a cake house that caters to the THB, and his average is 220 in both leagues..   he belongs to the BOTM club and has every ball drilled to go long and hook... his accuracy is average at best...

this is typical of some cities ...  i dont consider it sandbagging..  I just think its more of someone bowling with what he has access too..   

I myself am driving 45miles south just to bowl in 1 league this year because it's a scratch league and i am sick of dealing with the local bowling alley that is 3 miles away.. 

I am sure my average will drop a bit.. but i do not consider it sandbagging... 

the owner of the place i am bowling at this year even told me, its a House shot, but it's not your typical house shot, and every pair of lanes play different.. 
" Lift your skirt, grab your balls and learn how to bowl "

trash heap

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Re: So renegade leagues is the new sandbagging now
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2012, 04:32:09 PM »
From my interpretation of USBC rules and regulations. Renegade Leagues are legal. Every association should have a Renegade League. So let's get this thing going. It appears the only way the USBC will listen when it becomes a big enough problem.

 

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