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Author Topic: Time to STOP!  (Read 10150 times)

JOE FALCO

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Time to STOP!
« on: December 17, 2010, 08:51:58 AM »
I read all the postings on EBONITE and how they were going to do something to fix the price on there bowling balls. I thought at the time I can see the argument! But these prices are crazy. Ebonite and Hammer balls going for $155 undrilled is OUT OF BOUNDS! I see where the online shops were cutting the throats of the B/M shops but .. now the companies are SHOVING ridiculous prices down the throat of bowlers.

I think it's about time for BOWLER'S to take a stand and start investigating some of the newer companies. If we accept these prices and don't revolt we might as well give up the game. EBONITE and company has lost me as a customer .. don't care how good there advertised balls appear!
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

 

kmtproshop

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2010, 05:06:42 AM »
Have you checked out Motiv???  I have them on sale---Recon-$85, QZ-$95, TR2 & SR2-$115, Cruel-$125.  Plus shipping.  Drill your own with the KMT Personal Ball Jig--on sale for $285 plus $15 shipping.  Or, I''ll drill it for you for $35 plus $10 for finger inserts if you use them.

Edited on 12/18/2010 7:09 AM

John D Davis

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2010, 06:10:34 AM »
Boy I can go on and on about this topic but I aint...
Who really gives 2 shi*ts about whether or not you can buy a ball online for cheaper than the distributer????????????? Pro shops as said above make so much money per the service they perform regardless of where the ball comes from etc. I dont know about your shops but where Im from most of them charge more if you bring it in from somewhere else, giving them the same general profit as if they had took it off the shelf. Now I may be crazy but if a man doesnt have to stock but 50% of balls compared to 5 years ago to make a living then it doesnt get any better than that!

   Now the problem with all the prices,etc. is that pro shops sometimes have to sit on cirtain bowling balls because they cant sell it for less. That becomes a problem when new releases keep coming out and so on... What pro shops have to do is to discount those balls and compete with the online pricing just to get them gone. Now they may not make a dime on it, but at least they have just made room for the newer items.


    Yes Ebonite may have the higher prices than most companies, but they are still reasonable compared to some of the other companies such as Lane 1. Now the Mission balls are marked up maybe 15$ bucks more than the other high performance balls, but heck to me, they are worth every penny of it. I aint knocking you Joe, but obviously you dont own any missions or you wouldnt have even come on here with such a topic. I currently have 2 Mission 2.0's and an original Mission and they are by far the best bowling balls I have had in my hands in a very long time. I have drilled probably close to a hundred bowling balls for myself JUST THIS YEAR from various companies, so for me to say that should mean something. Ebonite by far has the most potential in the bowling industry, so why not support them??? At least they havent moved to Mexico thank god like Brunswick. Bottom line, there really is no great solution for the pro shops. Im sure in time, all this will work itself out. Ebonite is still one of the best balls out and you cant at least blame them for trying something. John

Atochabsh

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2010, 06:18:07 AM »
quote:
Ebonite and Hammer balls going for $155 undrilled is OUT OF BOUNDS!


You mean because you now cannot get them below what the distributor sells them to pro shops for?  Oh well.  

Mark up?  What is mark up?  You mean pro shops must sell their inventory at cost or less then cost?  I applaud Ebonite for doing this.

Stan

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2010, 06:27:09 AM »
I agree with John.  Regardless of where you purchase your ball, the pro shop, most of the time, has to drill it.  Therefore, the pro shop is not losing any profit.  What they are gaining is less inventory and if the ball is defective, let the customer deal with the online shop.  Now, if the pro shops want to stock more inventory, they will eventually have to sell some of it at cost, plus drilling just to get back their money.  The last sentence is based on new balls coming out every month or so.


Juggernaut

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2010, 07:05:25 AM »
quote:
I really do not know where all of you guys are getting your numbers from....

Pricing on select balls in my shop....

Drilling prices regardless if you buy ball from me or elsewhere:
Conventional...$25
Finger tip.....$35
Inserts........$ 4 each
Thumb slug.....$12
Inserts and slug with ball purchase...$15
SwitchGrip Thumb outer....$15
Switchgrip thumb inner....$15
SwitchGrip Finger inner (includes grip)...$ 8
Switchgrip Finger outer...$ 8

Balls....
Storm Anarchy....$149
Hammer Brawl.....$109
Hammer Taboo.....$139

Brunswick Wicked Siege....$139
Ebonite Mission 2.0.......$139
Motiv Cruel.......$135
Columbia Pure Physics...$139
RotoGrip Theory....$139

I don't see how you guys can say that Ebonite is screwing the bowler. Your local pro shops are screwing the bowlers....it's not Ebonite that's setting the prices on the shop shelves...the pro shop owners are setting those prices.

Every price listed above makes me money and I don't get any volume discounts since I don't sell many multiples of balls.


--------------------
Doug Sterner


 CALLING ALL PROSHOPS!

 Do you guys see this?

 Doug "gets it", so why don't ya'll?

 Why do you need "BIG BROTHER" to prop you up with a price supporting structure?

 Why do you jack up your drilling charge by $30 EXTRA dollars for a ball bought elsewhere?

 How is it that this guy can charge a CHEAPER PRICE than most, yet make a fair profit AND not constantly carp about how the online shops are killing him and putting him out of business?

 He's confused, as am I. Please explain it to us.
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HamPster

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2010, 07:11:17 AM »
It depends on the part of the country, the market, the local economy, and the cost of living to determine what a ball will go for.  The manufacturers are beginning to realize just how important QUALITY pro shops are to their business.

Take a high performance asymmetric ball.  You buy it online, because it''s cheaper than you can get it at the local shop for.  Then you take it to the lowest bidder because it''s cheap.  If it''s cheap, it most likely means it''s a chop shop or the bowling alley owns the shop, and the guy in there is just doing it as a job.  You, being the average bowler that thinks a ball is supposed to act like the one you saw the pro throwing on tv no matter what the surface is or how it''s drilled or how you throw it, drop it off and don''t think a thing about it.  Say it''s drilled label with the MB in the middle of your track and you start rolling over finger holes?  Say the weighthole gets stuck in the wrong place?  Say after 100 games you decide to resurface it, and instead of the pro shop guy knowing that it''s supposed to go 500 grit straight to 4000 grit to return it to box surface, goes a typical old school 500, 800, 1500, 2000, 4000, and the ball acts like a piece of junk.  

So what are you as the average ignorant bowler going to think?  That the pro shop guy screwed it up?  Not hardly.  That the ball sucks, it isn''t durable, and that dents your perception of the manufacturer.  If you take plastic or urethane, you can''t hurt them, but they won''t help you out quite as much.  The newer more technological bowling balls take much more care and precision with regard to layout and surface prep to act right than other balls do, and the average ignorant back room guy that drills balls affects perception of the equipment, and the average ignorant guy that orders a 1 inch pin ball with 4 ounces of topweight, then starts looking at the layout instructions that come with the ball and wants a pin over bridge layout, but still wants it legal to go to nationals, those people aren''t doing the manufacturers any favors.  

Why are people so dumb when it comes to bowling but so educated with golf or something else?  Ebonite is trying to protect the pro shops.  And here is the angle that hurts the professional shops.  If you get a ball online for 120 bucks, and by the time you get a ball drilled with inserts, a slug or interchangeable thumb system for around 50-60 bucks, you don''t think that sounds like a rip-off to the bowler?  "I only paid 120 for this ball and you''re gonna charge me half that to drill it?  I don''t think so . ."  So that bowler walks out and goes to the guy down the street that will do it all for 25, and the vicious cycle begins.  That guy screws it up, then the ball is sheepishly brought back in to plug and redrill, and then there''s not really a whole lot you can do.  The rg and differential numbers have already been altered, not to mention having to do it again with the redrill, then having to resurface the ball to smooth off the plugged areas to make them smooth, a redrill is a crap shoot more often than not.  Or the ball just sucks to begin with and the guy blames it on the ball instead of the idiot operator and the idiot that started the whole thing, him.  

So you see it''s not as simple as Ebonite trying to screw the bowler by raising their prices a whole ten bucks.  That''s another funny thing, you''ll complain about an extra ten bucks on a bowling ball, but you''ll spend 25 bucks a night on beer.  Bowlers really are unbelievable.  Most pro shops cost in the thousands per month for operating costs, and you think that giving them a whole 30 or 40 bucks profit on drilling a ball is outrageous?  Come on now, enough with the self-righteous indignance, Ebonite isn''t just trying to protect their image, they''re trying to ensure that the bowlers get a QUALITY product, because that benefits everyone.
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That''s just like, your opinion, man.

Edited on 12/18/2010 9:13 AM

Juggernaut

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2010, 07:19:13 AM »
quote:
Platinum level pricing on most HP balls thru Classic Dist is about $109...Take that for what it's worth....Our proshop sells most HP balls  at $259 includes drilling and grips/slug...


 HUH? WHAT?

 You mean you're making almost $100 clear profit per ball on your HP sales?

 And that's even allowing $50 for drilling and inserts (That cost you about $15 + your time)?

 So, what you're saying is, for a ball, shipping, and grips you have about $135-$140 invested, and you sell it for almost DOUBLE that? And all you have to do to be able to do that is drill the ball?

 Yeah, that sounds fair...............................
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HamPster

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2010, 07:24:18 AM »
I could see that depending on the cost of living.  Operating costs could be double or triple normal price, it just has to get eaten or passed along somewhere.  The typical retail price listed by the distributors is 250-270 for most high performance balls, believe it or not.  Bowlers would never pay that though, and with being in competition with online retailers, most shops would never get business at those prices.

quote:
quote:
Platinum level pricing on most HP balls thru Classic Dist is about $109...Take that for what it's worth....Our proshop sells most HP balls  at $259 includes drilling and grips/slug...


 HUH? WHAT?

 You mean you're making almost $100 clear profit per ball on your HP sales?

 And that's even allowing $50 for drilling and inserts (That cost you about $15 + your time)?

 So, what you're saying is, for a ball, shipping, and grips you have about $135-$140 invested, and you sell it for almost DOUBLE that? And all you have to do to be able to do that is drill the ball?

 Yeah, that sounds fair...............................
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Good transactions list in my profile



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That's just like, your opinion, man.

Juggernaut

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2010, 08:10:18 AM »
Heres my real point.

 I used to be in a shop. I know what balls cost them, and I know there was already a markup to the customer built in.

 I also know that we could sell cheaper than the MSRP and STILL make a good profit.

 I'm just tired of hearing shop guys talk about "how valuable" their "premium" services are. That's a load of BULLSH.., well, you get my meaning.

 If you want to be in the proshop business, then go into it with your eyes open, knowing what it takes and exactly what it is, AND THAT YOU CAN BE REPLACED ON A MOMENTS NOTICE.

 Bowling is PURELY RECREATIONAL. WHY would you EVER try to make a full time living off something that is a luxury/recreational activity? I think that's where much of the problem arises, from guys who want to make a FULL time living off a PART time job and can't.


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JOE FALCO

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2010, 08:17:39 AM »
So Ebonite FIXES the price on their bowling balls so that the ON LINE shops will sell for a price EQUAL TOO or above what the B/M shops sell for! GOOD .. who gets hurt by this? THE BOWLER! It sounds like Ebonite is stuffing their prices down the necks of bowlers. What good is it if Ebonite helps all the B/M shops out by allowing them to make MORE MONEY if there are NO BOWLERS to sell too!

If I could once have a ball for $160 and now it costs me (the bowler) $180-200 .. how does this help BOWLING? I consider myself one of those BALL WHORES (maybe not as bad as some) .. do you think increasing the price of purchase is going to effect my buying habits? In these tough times?

The other thought on this for me is .. if the new pricing structure is NOT earning more money for the B/M shops where is my additional expenses going? From what is being said the B/M guys are doing as they did before .. yet it's costing me MORE MONEY .. how good is this change for EBONITE????
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

Dave-bestbowlingproshops

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2010, 08:39:57 AM »



quote:
I'm just tired of hearing shop guys talk about "how valuable" their "premium" services are. That's a load of BULLSH.., well, you get my meaning.


Never had one customer complain about my "services" once they get them.  Are you one of the guys that takes his 99cent chicken fingers up to the counter because they're slightly overcooked?    People are more than willing to pay for good service.

quote:
Bowling is PURELY RECREATIONAL. WHY would you EVER try to make a full time living off something that is a luxury/recreational activity? I think that's where much of the problem arises, from guys who want to make a FULL time living off a PART time job and can't.


I could be looking too much into this statement but are you knocking what people do for a living?  Are you saying our jobs aren't worth it?  You say you were in the business...are you one of the guys that couldn't do it so you believe no one else can?

quote:
If it was NOT for the price I would have an order in for the TABOO ..No bowling ball is worth $200


Joe if you saw our presold numbers for this ball you'd flip.  Exactly how do YOU judge what is worth $200 and what isn't?  Just cause you don't want to pay it?  We have had demos for the last month now and once people put their hands in this ball....they ordered it immediately.  If someone ever walked in and said $200 was too much....I'd give them their other options...or let them try the ball.  But I guess that doesn't fall into "premium services" does it?
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JOE FALCO

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2010, 09:03:16 AM »
quote:
Joe if you saw our presold numbers for this ball you'd flip. Exactly how do YOU judge what is worth $200 and what isn't? Just cause you don't want to pay it? We have had demos for the last month now and once people put their hands in this ball....they ordered it immediately.
I don't doubt this one bit! I've seen the talks about the ball and also the advertisement. As I said if it wasn't for the price I'd have my order in. The question is .. how many people like me are staying away because of the price? Maybe few .. I just have a hard time believing that! Sooner or later Ebonite has to see the fall off of sales .. behaps the added money they are making on actual sales will help .. for now I'll just be part of the FALL OFF!
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

Dave-bestbowlingproshops

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2010, 09:18:56 AM »
Ok Joe I was just curious about what the price meant to you as far as $200 is too much.  I understand where you're coming from with everything else.  Where you spend your money is up to you.  

quote:
quote:
Joe if you saw our presold numbers for this ball you'd flip. Exactly how do YOU judge what is worth $200 and what isn't? Just cause you don't want to pay it? We have had demos for the last month now and once people put their hands in this ball....they ordered it immediately.
I don't doubt this one bit! I've seen the talks about the ball and also the advertisement. As I said if it wasn't for the price I'd have my order in. The question is .. how many people like me are staying away because of the price? Maybe few .. I just have a hard time believing that! Sooner or later Ebonite has to see the fall off of sales .. behaps the added money they are making on actual sales will help .. for now I'll just be part of the FALL OFF!

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Track Staff
Turbo Staff
Dave Roberts
Best Bowling Pro Shops
Always bringing the Best of Bowling to you!!!
www.bestbowlingproshops.com
Imperial Location: (636) 467-7842
Check us out on Facebook!

HamPster

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2010, 09:24:23 AM »
Ok. Im on the other side of the fence, i know the method to the madness or the theory behind it. The bottom line is that people are getting the cheapest price on a ball, having it drilled by the lowest bidder, and then when the ball inevitably sucks, they blame it on Ebonite. Ebonite doesnt like that. The drilling industry is a little out of control. Yes, bowling is mostly recreational, but when people spend that much money on something, they expect the best product possible, which you wont get from a part time shop with some guy that just knows how to operate a drill press running it. There is such a thing as premium service and it is only called that because all the other service is really substandard. It should be called just regular service, but since everyone else already offers regular service, or just drilling the ball, which sucks, if a professional shop run by guys who have been trained and certified just called it regular service, people wouldnt think much of it. They get screwed by a cheap driller, then take it to the professional to fix it. You cant have it both ways. You can either have it done cheap, or done right, because it does take a full time professional to do that. Maybe not full time all the time, but somebody that has once upon a time put a full time effort into learning and doing it right. So if you just want a cheap price, dont blame Ebonite when the ball sucks.
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That's just like, your opinion, man.

jls

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Re: Time to STOP!
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2010, 09:33:10 AM »
Top of the line HP balls from Ebonite are selling for $149 online...

Top of the line hp balls from Storm are selling for $139 online...

That's only a $10 difference...

The LATEST release from Brunswick WERE being sold for $139 online...Now they have been REDUCED to $133...<<< The Wicked Seige...

So Ebonite has tried to HELP pro shops... And the cost to the consumer on balls that are selling appears to be $10...

IMO, paying $189-$199 for a fitted and drilled high end QUALITY bowling ball is reasonable...

now


Merry Christmas
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jls