Author Topic: Time to STOP! (Read 10147 times)

JOE FALCO · « **on:** December 17, 2010, 08:51:58 AM »

I read all the postings on EBONITE and how they were going to do something to fix the price on there bowling balls. I thought at the time I can see the argument! But these prices are crazy. Ebonite and Hammer balls going for $155 undrilled is OUT OF BOUNDS! I see where the online shops were cutting the throats of the B/M shops but .. now the companies are SHOVING ridiculous prices down the throat of bowlers.

I think it's about time for BOWLER'S to take a stand and start investigating some of the newer companies. If we accept these prices and don't revolt we might as well give up the game. EBONITE and company has lost me as a customer .. don't care how good there advertised balls appear!

jls · « **Reply #31 on:** December 18, 2010, 10:30:22 AM »

quote:
quote:
Platinum level pricing on most HP balls thru Classic Dist is about $109...Take that for what it's worth....Our proshop sells most HP balls at $259 includes drilling and grips/slug...

HUH? WHAT?

You mean you're making almost $100 clear profit per ball on your HP sales?

And that's even allowing $50 for drilling and inserts (That cost you about $15 + your time)?

So, what you're saying is, for a ball, shipping, and grips you have about $135-$140 invested, and you sell it for almost DOUBLE that? And all you have to do to be able to do that is drill the ball?

Yeah, that sounds fair...............................
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Good transactions list in my profile

Sir, I don't think this person is a pro shop... I believe he was stating what the pro shop in his area sells HP balls for... I think!!!

However he is a little off on that $109 price for HP balls from Classic...They are usually around $130-$135... For sure!!!

But if that shop is selling them for about $259, it does seem high... However he did say with inserts and slug... IMO,>> with inserts about $200...
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jls

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #32 on:** December 18, 2010, 10:35:37 AM »

Something that was $120 and now cost $140 is a sizeable increase! Don't remember too many things jumping that much in price that quickly!

I bought my 1989 CAMRY in the neighborhood of $4k and my 08 ACCORD in the neighborhood of $26k .. which is a gigantic increase over 20 years .. but what does that have to do with the bowling ball increase over the last 3 months?

KoukiGS · « **Reply #33 on:** December 18, 2010, 10:37:57 AM »

I know I''ve bought 7-8 columbia balls that I have. And I have about 2-3 of them that have relatively low games. And their pricing structure... I''m going to be making all changes through the surface (even if dramatic) and won''t be buying any more bowling balls. And before you pull out the 149.99 card, the world beater for example is listed at 159.99 at the online proshop I deal with (which also has a physical location). I refuse to pay that. Sorry ebonite international. I was perfectly content whn they were 139.99. But a 20 dollar increase is where I draw the line and many others will too. And it''s not even a matter of not having the money, because I assure you I do, I''m not going to be held to a 20 dollar increase when the place''s distributor prices are the same. If the other shops played by the rules in the first place this wouldn''t of happened.

Edited on 12/18/2010 12:41 PM

The Dreaded Durbin · « **Reply #34 on:** December 18, 2010, 10:43:57 AM »

All the local shops are selling the high end Ebonite Family of balls for $155.00 un-drilled. I do not see where the internet prices are screwing any bowlers at all.

$155 is a fair price for a high end ball. If the pro shops are selling them for $155 un-drilled, and the internet shops are. Than there is no reason to shop on line. Go support your local pro shop.

There are no distributors selling high end balls for $109. Everybody thinks the pro shop is out to screw the customer and they make up incredible false statements.

Edited on 12/18/2010 12:46 PM

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #35 on:** December 18, 2010, 10:56:43 AM »

quote:
So WTF are you whining about

The increase in price to the bowler in the last 3 months! I thought I was pretty clear on that!

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #36 on:** December 18, 2010, 11:18:13 AM »

quote:
There was no price increase from Ebonite to distributers.
The 3 online guys have been having a war for the past several years selling below their cost because they all were greedy trying to corner the market in sales.

So you want the online pro shops that were losing money on Ebonite sales to keep on doing that so you can get it cheaper.

Edited on 12/18/2010 1:02 PM

It's VERY HARD for me to believe (as you do) that the on-line shops were losing money. It is NOT HARD for me to believe with the price fixing that the on-line shops will have less SALES in the future.. unless the increase in cost is being passed on to Ebonite I think the lower sales are going to come back and bite them on their FANNIES .. I HOPE IT DOES!

jls · « **Reply #37 on:** December 18, 2010, 11:30:39 AM »

quote:
There was no price increase from Ebonite to distributers.
The 3 online guys have been having a war for the past several years selling below their cost because they all were greedy trying to corner the market in sales.

So you want the online pro shops that were losing money on Ebonite sales to keep on doing that so you can get it cheaper.

Edited on 12/18/2010 1:02 PM

Triple Amen to this...

Joe, my friend, Ebonite did not increase their prices...The reason you are seeing HP balls selling for about $10 more is due to this...

Ebonite made the three online dealers "house accounts"...And now they control what they can sell their product for...

This is done in MANY industries, not just bowling...

Before these online dealers were cutting the price on Good Selling Balls because they were using rebate money from Brunswick...So instead of applying said money to Brunswick balls, they applied it towards BETTER SELLING Ebonite balls... Money from Brunswick, Co-Op Advertising...

Now they can't do that anymore...

Now Joe, I understand where you are coming from...But there are some really good balls on the market right now from Ebonite...OutBurst, GameOn, 916AT, Mission 2.0 and of course the Taboo...

And bowlers are winning money with them...

And they realize that these HP balls perform, and that makes up for the $10 extra one might pay for them...

Now

Merry Christmas
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jls

Juggernaut · « **Reply #38 on:** December 18, 2010, 11:54:52 AM »

To Dave-Bestbowlingproshop,

No need to point fingers, make baseless accusations, or those little whining noises you're making. Dave, I am not one of those guys who takes my .99 chicken fingers back, because .99 is a fair market price that is CONSUMER DRIVEN. They're cheap because people will only pay that much.

And NO, I am not one of the guys who couldn't make it. I was the guy that worked in the shop for the guy who wouldn't pay a 50% increase in the lease and closed instead of jacking his prices through the roof. He had the shop open from 6:00p.m. to 10:00p.m. during the week, 9 to 5 saturday, and sunday by appointment. That's 28 scheduled hours and a few special ones at times. He knew the shop was only a part time business, so he treated it that way.

We had a good clientele, with many repeat customers. He moved and opened up in another town that I did not want to drive to for a few hours a week.

I'm not questioning what you do, only that you're trying to make a full time living from a part time venture. Yes, I may be questioning the worth of what you do, because I can do it too and know just how technical and hard it is purported to be, when in actuality it really isn't all that hard because, like others have said, 99% of bowlers won't know and don't care. How hard is it to drill a ball for someone like that?

To the GRUDGE:

You must be CRD's new personna. He is the only person who ever complained about my "numerous" complaints of not having enough oil for my "powerful" release, so for you to come up with that out of the blue seems a long reach.

I haven't seen him around for a while, but here you are, complaining about the same old things in the same old way, using the same old words.

If so, then we have already had this discussion. If my opinions are irrelevant because of your perception of me, then yours are equally as irrelevant.

You've told me to retire from bowling before as well. People like you want all the people like me to go away because you don't know what to do with us, and you can't shut us up. That must suck for you.
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Good transactions list in my profile

Atochabsh · « **Reply #39 on:** December 18, 2010, 12:08:40 PM »

quote:
Don't remember too many things jumping that much in price that quickly!

You must use a bicycle to get to and from places because you don't seem too familiar with the frustration of gasoline prices.

Dave-bestbowlingproshops · « **Reply #40 on:** December 18, 2010, 01:00:35 PM »

First - I do apologize for "pointing fingers" and my accusations are from a personal side defending my career because that's how I treat my job. I consider myself a professional person and those comments were not..I took it too personal and again I apologize.
Second - I have a firm belief that not anyone can do my job. Problem is like you said most people wouldn't notice a well drilled ball until it's shown to them. That's how I treat it...I explain everything I can to my customers and help them improve because the sport is dying and we have to do everything we can to help bring it back. I believe bowler retention is part of it and if people improve their game and get better they stay. I've helped tons of juniors improve their game and I hope/believe they will bowl for years and help keep the sport going. That's also part of my job. Our shops have created countless events for our centers to help bring in bowlers...this cannot and will never be done by someone treating it as part time. I understand what you say is your opinion but our company has proven otherwise.

quote:
To Dave-Bestbowlingproshop,

No need to point fingers, make baseless accusations, or those little whining noises you're making. Dave, I am not one of those guys who takes my .99 chicken fingers back, because .99 is a fair market price that is CONSUMER DRIVEN. They're cheap because people will only pay that much.

And NO, I am not one of the guys who couldn't make it. I was the guy that worked in the shop for the guy who wouldn't pay a 50% increase in the lease and closed instead of jacking his prices through the roof. He had the shop open from 6:00p.m. to 10:00p.m. during the week, 9 to 5 saturday, and sunday by appointment. That's 28 scheduled hours and a few special ones at times. He knew the shop was only a part time business, so he treated it that way.

We had a good clientele, with many repeat customers. He moved and opened up in another town that I did not want to drive to for a few hours a week.

I'm not questioning what you do, only that you're trying to make a full time living from a part time venture. Yes, I may be questioning the worth of what you do, because I can do it too and know just how technical and hard it is purported to be, when in actuality it really isn't all that hard because, like others have said, 99% of bowlers won't know and don't care. How hard is it to drill a ball for someone like that?

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www.bestbowlingproshops.com
Track Staff
Turbo Staff

laufaye · « **Reply #41 on:** December 18, 2010, 01:15:47 PM »

If someone can pay that price and want it, they will pay that price. How a pro shop charge for a ball or services, are all market driven, lifestyle driven, cost of living driven and so on, if they can get a higher price so be it, if not price will come down.

Why are we even discussing this simple concept

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Neil Lau
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
VISE Staff Member
USBC Bronze Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
Owner of Super Bowl Pro Shop and Bowlers Junction, CA

sunsetlefty · « **Reply #42 on:** December 18, 2010, 01:50:04 PM »

+1....an accurate assessment.

I sold my first Taboo for $179.95 drilled, including grips and slug, and realized that after my operating costs, I didn't make a nickle. Lesson learned...

quote:
Here we go another cheap arse senior bowler who wants something for nothing.

Joe cheapo do you actually know what the price to online pro shops is for the Taboo?

I will tell you...around $135.00

Do you know what UPS charges for shipping from lets say New York to California?
Around $20.00 and UPS are raising their rates in January another 5%

Do you know what credit card companies charge for processing?
Around 3%

It looks like at $154.95 online pro shops that sell the Taboo are breaking even...correct?

So WTF are you whining about..go fornicate yourself and the horse you rode in on!

Edited on 12/18/2010 12:57 PM

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Owner of X-act Reaction pro shop at Ideal Lanes
www.xactreaction.com
Ebonite International Gold Pro Shop
Rotogrip Star Pro Shop
Storm VIP Pro Shop
PBA Member

HamPster · « **Reply #43 on:** December 18, 2010, 02:18:40 PM »

Yeah, a taboo drilled and out the door for that price is fairly insane. Until you do it, meaning work in, run, or own a pro shop, you dont get how much it costs just to simply drill a ball. The ball will never earn very much profit for a shop, but every little bit helps. Just wait until all you cheap bowlers force the good pro shops out of business, drill them yourself and see how far you get
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That's just like, your opinion, man.

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #44 on:** December 18, 2010, 08:31:59 PM »

Joe....I have always respected your opinion in the past but this is one I cannot back you on my friend. You keep saying that the ball is costing the bowler more...it's not costing the bowler more at all. In fact the only place where it's costing more is from those 3 Internet shops that Ebonite has chosen to police.

Why did Ebonite do this? jls kept us informed on this one from day 1. Ebonite is not trying to protect the pro shops. Ebonite is trying to protect it's brands and it's reputation. Typically the bowler who buys new releases online to save $10 is the same guy that shops around and will find the guy who will drill it for $25 (AKA the bargain basement hole pounders as jls puts it). What happens more times than not is that these bargain basement guys don't have the ability to maximize the ball reaction for the bowler and the "hot new release" now ends up looking like a "ho-hum nothing special" piece that doesn't make anyone else want to go out and buy one.

I think it's more about Ebonite protecting it's reputation than trying to protect the pro shops.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #45 on:** December 19, 2010, 08:10:31 AM »

OK .. Thanks! I'm sure this method is beneficial to someone .. wether it be Ebonite, the distributor. the on-line shop, or the B/M shop .. perhaps all .. I KNOW the bowler that was buying from on-line shops is now putting out more money.

It comes down to a gamble by Ebonite .. they are leveling the field on sales so that the Bowler CAN NOT get the brake they were getting through the on-line shop and Ebonite is betting that those buyers will now pay the higher amounts and loose out on the DISCOUNTED PRICES! If they are right YEARLY sales will not decline .. B/M shops will happily sell more of the Ebonite products .. distributors will decrease sales to on-line shops and off-set this with higher sales to the b/m shops .. the only person to pay for this will be the BOWLER! Ebonite did a fine thing .. funny how they do this when they develop two new balls that appear to dominate the game (Taboo and mission).

So many bowlers balked at the price range created by Lane 1 .. now we have another company doing a similar game and we now claim it's justified.

I've made my point and do not wish to make enemies .. I'm through with Ebonite .. I only hope others can see where I'm coming from. I also know that last sentence will inspire some to tear me apart .. but I will disconnect from this topic and your comments will be in vain.

Thanks again for your patience!

Author Topic: Time to STOP! (Read 10147 times)

JOE FALCO

Time to STOP!

jls

Re: Time to STOP!

JOE FALCO

Re: Time to STOP!

KoukiGS

Re: Time to STOP!

The Dreaded Durbin

Re: Time to STOP!

JOE FALCO

Re: Time to STOP!

JOE FALCO

Re: Time to STOP!

jls

Re: Time to STOP!

Juggernaut

Re: Time to STOP!

Atochabsh

Re: Time to STOP!

Dave-bestbowlingproshops

Re: Time to STOP!

laufaye

Re: Time to STOP!

sunsetlefty

Re: Time to STOP!

HamPster

Re: Time to STOP!

Doug Sterner

Re: Time to STOP!

JOE FALCO

Re: Time to STOP!