win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: USBC discipline for sandbagging  (Read 16639 times)

Dogtown

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
USBC discipline for sandbagging
« on: September 13, 2013, 10:12:17 AM »
Has anyone seen USBC discipline someone (or team) for sandbagging.

We have a team on our men's league that is intentionally throwing off.  Guys who average 200+ shooting less than 100 multiple games.  Throwing plastic balls all game.  Picking off 10 and 7 pins ON THE FIRST BALL.

Our whole league was up in arms last night because it has gotten so obviously.  What do you do?  What does USBC need to show proof?  This is my first year on the league.  Apparently this team has won the league before by sandbagging the first half, then showing up the second half.

 

NHLfan88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2013, 10:19:05 AM »
you change your league to an "Invitational" League and don't invite them back.
Those who can't bowl, bowl with two hands.

mainzer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4405
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2013, 10:20:15 AM »
You could vote to throw the team out of the league.
"No one runs...from the conquerer "

MainzerPower

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2013, 10:29:02 AM »
Put in a league rule where a bowlers current average can't fall below their entering average without a majority vote of the captains.

But that would need to be done at the beginning of the league probably since the captain of the offending team would not agree to the rule change.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

dw23

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 986
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2013, 10:29:50 AM »
One of my leagues has a 5 pin drop rule and we are invitation only. Works pretty well.
Deven Walls

Pro Shop Staff Member
Lord Field/Lane Masters
www.lordfield.com and www.lane-masters.com
"Changing Bowling, One Bowler At A Time"

storm making it rain

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2013, 10:44:11 AM »
Pin drop rule is a good solution, but as stated this would have to be voted on by the board.  Or you could adopt a rule where your averages don't re-establish until after a certain amount of weeks, we use 3 weeks in our men's league, you could make it more weeks where it would penalize them for not coming close to their averages.

Either way both suggestions would have to be voted in by the league

BruceKaratz

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2013, 11:08:12 AM »
Call the USBC and ask them.

dR3w

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2013, 11:38:26 AM »
I've been through this before.  Its a long story, so I won't go into the whole thing.  In the end the USBC won't do anything.  You can bring them up for dismissal, and have a league vote.  (I don't recall, but I think you need a 2/3 majority).  In my case, most teams felt that the cheating was obvious, but felt expulsion was too extreme.  So despite everyone encouraging me to take this up for vote, most didn't have the backbone to stand up to the cheater.  On a good note, he stopped sandbagging after that.

In the ABC rule book (old version), rule 17A covered unfair tactics, defined as intentionally bowling under a person's average to gain an advantage in league or tournament play.

I had to right a formal complaint to the President of the league, and list the charges.  I presented a very convincing argument with lots of data, and even a re-rate from a tournament.  There was literally no doubt he was cheating.  The most important factor is whether the other team captains will act, or not.

Good luck if you take that route, and be prepared for some backlash.  Doing what is right, isn't always popular.

scotts33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8451
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2013, 11:56:07 AM »
Our local USBC assn. manager has re-rated noted sandbaggers in our local assn. tourney.

The franchise owner of the Milw. ABT has re-rated ABT bowlers when he thought they were under-performing.  Don't think that ABT franchise owners also don't communicate to each other when franchises are in close proximity that so and so has been throwing off.   ;)
Scott

kidlost2000

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5789
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 12:06:54 PM »
This is a team effort for sandbagging not just one bowler.

The thought is when USBC is required to make a backbone decision they will not. Most in the league understand that, it is still sad that USBC will not do anything. (got to keep money coming in from your bowlers right?)

I like the idea of re-rating your averages. Say quarterly. Still has a team you can pick and choose who to slack off and when. No allowing them back seems the smarter choice.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

dR3w

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2013, 12:16:21 PM »
I am not sure I see a difference between individual sandbagging or a team effort, in the fact that you can bring each person up on rules violations. Perhaps if you get one or two of the worse offenders removed from the league, the others would follow.

There was a person in town caught in the distant past using a book average for his right hand when he was an accomplished left-hander.  He was caught bowling left handed in an out-of-state tournament, and lost his ABC card for a 10 year suspension.  So there are actual occasions when the governing authority will take action.


This is a team effort for sandbagging not just one bowler.

The thought is when USBC is required to make a backbone decision they will not. Most in the league understand that, it is still sad that USBC will not do anything. (got to keep money coming in from your bowlers right?)

I like the idea of re-rating your averages. Say quarterly. Still has a team you can pick and choose who to slack off and when. No allowing them back seems the smarter choice.

BobOhio

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2013, 12:26:24 PM »
I would think that since your a sanctioned league, contact the local USBC or State office and talk this over. Ask if one of them would visit the league during competition and then ask them for a direction. Also remind them that your paying for their support and expect something be done. In Dayton a few years ago we did this and  the bowler was without a(ABC card) for two years.
It can be done, but you need to continue to supply information, videos are easy these days and if possible last years records to see if that pattern is developing in the same manner. You will have to do the dirty work, as others will not, they will just complain and move on.
Also remind the rep from USBC, that next year the league could be unsanctioned as easy as being sanctioned. The state rep will be a lot more helpful.
BobOhio
GO BUCKS

blesseddad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2013, 01:00:33 PM »
Has anyone seen USBC discipline someone (or team) for sandbagging.

We have a team on our men's league that is intentionally throwing off.  Guys who average 200+ shooting less than 100 multiple games.  Throwing plastic balls all game.  Picking off 10 and 7 pins ON THE FIRST BALL.

Our whole league was up in arms last night because it has gotten so obviously.  What do you do?  What does USBC need to show proof?  This is my first year on the league.  Apparently this team has won the league before by sandbagging the first half, then showing up the second half.

Guessing you do not have the option of making this league scratch in the future, so here is a few more ideas.

(1) Change the format to quarters, and the roll off to the top team from each quarter, so perhaps they have bowl for 3/4 of the league. Probably still have a way to jack it up, though...

(2) Make the league a progressive league, where the teams are bowling the ENTIRE LEAGUE, EVERY GAME! Bag all you want and you will end up in last...

(3) Lower the percentage on the handicap base to 70%. Cost them sticks for every pin they throw away.

(4) Break their legs in the parking lot after league (JK)

Good luck! USBC lost its teeth and willingness to stand up for what is right a long time ago IMHO...

armswing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 07:38:21 PM »
There's a guy who was in our Jubilee League who was caught having 3 different USBC cards all with his first and last name spelled slightly different. Same person 3 different averages. He was the anchor on a team that's won the league the last 3 years professsional sandbaggers. A meeting was called and a USBC representative from our local association made this info known during the meeting and needles to say the team captains voted 27 to 1 to kick the guy out the league. Things have changed sandbagging is out of control. His teammate averaged 225 on Tuesday Night league and on the Wednesday Night Jubilee he averaged 181 same house same condition they kicked him out also.

LuckyLefty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17348
Re: USBC discipline for sandbagging
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 07:52:40 PM »
For the original poster,That doesn't sound like even sound like good sandbagging!

Easy to catch and react to.  Even an USBC official could catch that!
Call em!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana