More and more it feels like I'm just the guy that puts holes in the ball.  People come in with requests, demands, or instructions, and any questions they ask just further set or fuel their nearly predetermined idea of what they want.  For a while there I actually started feeling like a professional, or somebody who was making a difference, but as soon as you start butting heads with people, your stomach drops.  If people want knowledge, a pro shop is apparently the last place they go.  They'll ask other coaches, other people, pop on here with questions, but they won't trust their pro shop.  All I keep hearing is, "this is what I want," or "this is the way I hold the ball," or "I want to do it this way."  I'm not happy or content being the monkey on the press, but at the same time I'm in no position to try and influence a change. 

I know I yammer on about the same crap all the time, but I find things a lot easier to take if I have no misconceptions or unrealistic expectations about my situations.  So what do you really want from your pro shop operator?  I'm not saying pro shop guys all know what they're doing by any stretch, but I suppose I don't get why everybody thinks they know more than professionals who do something for a living, and honestly I'm bitter about it.  I don't spend dozens of hours a week thinking, reading, learning, and writing about bowling just to drill someone's thumbhole 3 sizes too big because they like to grip it, yet still complain about that thumb being twice the size of their other one, and won't let me do a thing about it.  I'm sure that sounds arrogant, but it's just insanely frustrating when people won't let you help, it's like dealing with one teenager after another. 

Quote from: scotts33 on December 06, 2013, 11:26:28 PM

You may also get wacky ball motion with every ball laid out the same but you got what you paid for.   

think im doing just fine with my "wonky" set up...im averaging 200 in just 2 years of throwing a hook...i have no issues with the way i do things now so why get gouged for something i don't really need?

http://www.ballreviews.com/roto-grip/wrecker-breaking-way-to-earlyhelp-t299223.0.html


suhoney24

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Re: wrecker breaking WAY to early...help?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 01:55:50 AM »

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Quote from: batbowler on December 01, 2013, 01:11:05 PM

    What type of lay-out do you have on these? Is the Wrecker similar to the other balls that you're able to use? Just my $.02, Bruce

all my balls are pin beside my finger tips...


If you are happy fine.  If others want more from their PSO then it's going to cost more.  Fair price for amount of time spent with more tools at their disposal than many drillers with more experience.

Here's mine.  http://robbaileysproshop.com/  2 lanes at his pro shop. 2 Ebonite Oval digital mill drills, 2 Haus machines, DeTerminator.  Huge difference in his ability vs. a guy with a drill in his garage.

There are drillers and there are pro shop operators.   

I guess I should do my research before having a debate.  Anyone who would describe their ball layouts as "all my balls are pin beside my finger tips…" or goes in telling the shop "i would like something for good back end" isn't going to know the difference of what a good pro shop is or isn't.  But that person who knows absolutely about the pro shop business is going to debate the business side of it with someone who's been in the industry for almost 30 years.  Go to work Monday and ask your boss how long he will stay in business if he only brings in $35 for an hour of work.

If and when your game ever gets to a point were you can actually see the difference in ball motion you're going to need more than holes in a ball with a pin besides your finger tips.  Expect to pay somebody more than $35 for this.

Keep your expectations low and you will be satisfied with your 3 holes for $35.

Apparently you don't get what all goes into selecting a ball that has "good backend."  Number one, what is your idea of good backend?  Because everybody has a different idea of what that is.  Did you read the link I provided?  The one filled with physics and quadratic equations?  Once again, just because you don't understand it, you who "has only been throwing a hook for 2 years," that automatically means the entire industry has no clue what they're doing?  There's absolutely no way possible that YOU'RE the one that doesn't get it?  You know nothing about it, and because you don't get it, the experienced professionals are the ones that have to be wrong . .  You might as well say Harrison Ford knows nothing about acting, JJ Abrams knows nothing about directing, Walter Ray Williams Jr knows nothing about winning tournaments, and Jeff Gordon knows nothing about racing, because if somebody tells you something and you don't get it or don't agree, they're the idiot.

So if your boss asks you to work for half your salary next time you go into work because he doesn't need you to do much that day, you'd agree to that?  Same logic you're dropping on us here. 

Quote from: itsallaboutme on December 07, 2013, 05:02:13 AM

I guess I should do my research before having a debate.  Anyone who would describe their ball layouts as "all my balls are pin beside my finger tips…" or goes in telling the shop "i would like something for good back end" isn't going to know the difference of what a good pro shop is or isn't.  But that person who knows absolutely about the pro shop business is going to debate the business side of it with someone who's been in the industry for almost 30 years.  Go to work Monday and ask your boss how long he will stay in business if he only brings in $35 for an hour of work.

If and when your game ever gets to a point were you can actually see the difference in ball motion you're going to need more than holes in a ball with a pin besides your finger tips.  Expect to pay somebody more than $35 for this.

Keep your expectations low and you will be satisfied with your 3 holes for $35.

like i said blowhard know it all...what expectations do you want from me? im a freaking house bowler not a pba pro...all i need is a ball drilled with the lay out that i like and know what it will do

but i am curious now if i go get one of these magical layouts you are sprouting off about if my ball will suddenly shoot flames out of it halfway down the lane and explode the pins so my average will rocket to 250..not likely

Exactly.  Several years ago I worked in construction inspection, and at the time I was making 13.50 an hour.  How much was my company charging me out for?  56 an hour.  I also carried around 6000 bucks worth of testing equipment.  So if I'm drilling a ball for you (suhoney) on our 15,000 dollar drill press, using 3 different 40 dollar apiece bits, several assorted tools to finish the beveling and fine tuning, the total of which is near 100 dollars, and then my boss still has to pay me on top of that, you know how many balls you have to drill just to break even on that?  What about if you want us to sand or polish a ball using our 2500 dollar spinner?  A resurface on the 3500 dollar haus? 

I'll tell you what, start your own shop, buy all that equipment, sell stuff as cheap as you want to, and tell me how long you stay in business.  Pro shops aren't charging that much because they want to live the high life, they're charging that much just to keep the doors open.  I work at the shop because I love bowling, but definitely not because of the pay. 

suhoney, you're obviously the kind of person that thinks because somebody spent an hour with you and you paid them $35, that person is making $35 an hour.  When you go to work Monday morning ask your boss how much it cost them for you to work there.  It's pretty apparent you know nothing about running a business and the expenses involved. 

Just so you are sure of your place, you are the typical pro shop customer.  You don't know anything, expect everything and want it done for next to nothing. 

And when it comes to the pro shop I am a blowhard know it all.  And you can ask every shop I visit, if they sell high end balls for less than $200 or drill a ball for less than $60 I tell them they are doing themselves a disservice.

It was an estimate, I have no idea how much it cost, lol.  But it's not a cheap home job, everything we have in here is top of the line, best you can get, brand new from Jayhawk (when it was purchased).  Say you've got a super cheap one that cost 500.  How many 3 buck sanding jobs does it take just to pay it off?  Not including the price of abralon pads? 

You spend $2500 on a ball spinner? That's hilarious.

Yeap. 

Spinner btw is the dual speed w/cabinet from Jayhawk. 

The haus cost estimate is pretty close I'd imagine.  The regular spinner I'm hoping he didn't go over $350 for.

Yes there's a lot of cost in owning a shop and everything has to be factored in. A lot of companies take advantage of shops or future shops by over selling them on equipment. Used on a lot of things can be the much smarter route to go. Many people can't factor in that if they pay $15k on a press and bits how many bowling balls they need to drill in order to pay for just the press.

That's part of the reason so many proshops both home and in center that never make it. Factor other needed tools, inventory, and labor and you have a big hurdle to overcome getting off the ground in a small profit industry.

I just bought a 15lb nib Ringer Platinum off ebay for $71 shipped. Thats below my cost. Not many other industries where that happens.

A $4-500 spinner is a necessity in a shop.  A $1500 spinner is a luxury.  Just like an $8000 drill press.  The busiest shop I've ever been in has 2 presses with Rudell jigs.  And even he charges more than $35 to drill a ball.

The big racket is getting everyone hooked on Abralon pads.  And I can't even count how many guys I see used them to do plug work.