Author Topic: Whats with the damn lanes?!? (Read 5210 times)

Rev-less · « **on:** June 13, 2003, 01:26:18 PM »

Ever since the center I've been bowling regularly in replaced their old lanes with new ones the scores and overall mood of the bowlers there has been getting bad to worse.

The lane conditions there are EXTREMELY flooded. It is impossible to get ANY hook from the ball if it's played anywhere in the center. Playing the 1st 7-8 boards will allow for a little hook, but that tends to dissappear after a few shots because of carrydown, and the hook most people get tends to be a weak, mellow arc that straightens out rather than a distinctive break. Even the high rev bowlers are playing down and in shots! Physical examination of the lanes showed that the oil line stops just before the further (wider) pair of brown 'stripes'.

The new lanes are Brunswick Pro-anvil lanes, and they are oiled using a Kegal Class Oiling machine that costs a bomb and is SUPPOSEDLY the best machine to date. The brand of oil being used is Brunswick "Command" oil.
The old lanes were Brunswick synthetics, installed in the 80's.

According to the management there, the oiling put down by the machine is supposed to be the exact same pattern as the one they laid down on the old lanes before renovation. I'm having trouble believing this because that would mean that the condition would be a blocked pattern thats buffed to 40 feet...and when this condition was used on the old lanes (and oiled by the same machine), almost everyone's scores were super-high and the ball could actually hook considerably. Right now just about every non straight-ball bowler is experiencing a 10-20 pin decrease in their averages.

I'm hoping if any of you fellows here who are experienced with lane maintanance could recommend me an oiling pattern (buff distance, oil volume etc) that would be most suitable for these new lanes. Preferably, the pattern should be relatively easy to play, does not carry down too quickly and allow for a little swing and backend pop. (Yes I'm asking for cheesecake conditions

)

Edited on 6/14/2003 4:52 AM

10 In The Pit · « **Reply #1 on:** June 14, 2003, 07:11:55 AM »

Flapjack, you didn't wander into my league house by any chance, did you? It definitely sounds somewhat familiar, with the down and in shot being the line of choice because of the flood in the middle. I have seven "drier" boards outside to work with, but even those boards are heavy enough that you can't swing the ball out to them and expect to get it back to the pocket. I was starting to think that I'm the only one who bowls on oil anymore, based on the continuous string of comments of posters here who claim that they never see any oil.

My house did try the Brunswick "Command" oil, and after the 5 gallon bucket was gone, the owner switched back to Defense. However, the Defense was presenting a lot of carrydown problems with the machinery, so the owner finally went back to one of my favorite oils "Black Gold" (by Neo Tac). The Command experiment was a bust....nobody liked it, and it didn't take the owner too long to figure out that it wasn't what he wanted either.

As far as length, my house typically runs 40' to 42' here lately, with the shorter length being for the mixed leagues. Those extra 2 feet of oil on the men's leagues kill my average about 10 pins.....I checked across all of my leagues, and my 2 men's leagues were both about 10 pins lower than my mixed leagues.

You might want to talk to the house about trying out the Neo Tac "Black Gold" lane conditioner. One fine point about Black Gold is that it doesn't carry down nearly as bad as some of the other oils out on the market today. You visibly see what appears to be carrydown with the Black Gold, but the carrydown stripes don't feel slick, so what is carrying down must be some additive to the oil instead of the oil itself. I know that the owner of my house has tried just about every oil that ever hit the market, and here lately he has settled in on the Black Gold, if that tells you anything. You can check out their website at http://www.neotac.com. Yes, this is the same company that makes Hook-It, Renew-It, Control-It, Liquid Sandpaper, and Liquid Nitro....they've had Black Gold on the market for at least the past 5 years now.

charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** June 14, 2003, 10:02:50 AM »

As 10ITP indicates, oil can make a world of difference.

I think the problem is that AnvilLanes are one of the most slippery (low friction) synthetic lane surfaces around. (Several experts here at ballreviews have mentioned this; so, I feel safe in passing this as 2nd hand knowledge.) The house cannot use the same oil, the same amount and the same pattern and expect the shot to remain the same; that does not make sense. That is analogous to expecting a resurfaced resin pearl bowling ball to behave exactly the same as it did when it had a worn out track - ain't gonna happen.

I believe they may not have listened to the Brunswick people or whoever installed the new lanes. If your old synth lanes were installed in the 80s, they had to have had a decent amount of wear on them; synthetic lanes do wear out also, just slower than wood lanes.

Until they do, I think you might use this situation as a valuable learning experience: Find a dull ball suitable for such a condition and learn how to play it; maybe develop a down and in stroke. Eventually the house will (or should) rectify the oil pattern to a more reasonable house shot.

michelle · « **Reply #3 on:** June 14, 2003, 11:01:52 AM »

When new lanes are installed, the house has to spend time tweaking patterns or else this type of problem presents itself. The fact that synthetics replaced synthetics does not alter that fact.

The frustration in this instance should be directed entirely to the proprietor.

da Shiv · « **Reply #4 on:** June 14, 2003, 12:00:46 PM »

quote:
When new lanes are installed, the house has to spend time tweaking patterns or else this type of problem presents itself. The fact that synthetics replaced synthetics does not alter that fact.

What michelle said is highly likely to be the cause of the problem. Here's another possibility. One of the centers where I bowl had a very tough, inconsistent condition for years. It drove everyone nuts. The 300 game and 700 series were very rare, even for the best bowlers, and 800s were non-existent. With new management, they bought a Phoenix-S lane machine. Even allowing time for a learning curve, conditions stayed horrible. Finally, after about 3 months of complaints from the bowlers, they got a company technician in and discovered that the machine was defective and nobody realized it! They exchanged it for a new one, and things improved immediately.

Is their lane machine new along with the new lanes?

Epilogue: Averages are up, but this house still has a tough shot. The bowlers here in the forum who complain about cake league conditions would like it. You have to be ready to make a change at the first sniff of a problem, and keep changing--or else.

Shiv
--------------------
Listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk top

Edited on 6/14/2003 12:06 PM

Rev-less · « **Reply #5 on:** June 14, 2003, 12:21:57 PM »

Thanks for the replys folks.

To answer some of the questions:

10ITP: Isn't 40feet kinda long for a normal house condition. I don't know about the trends in your area, but over here in Asia a normal house oil tends to run anywhere from 35-38 feet. 40feet oilings are usually reserved for tournaments. As for the brand of oil, Brunswick Command is here to stay unfortunately

The people running the center (lane mechanics included) are a bunch of old stubborn fools who have a problem taking criticism from anyone other than their children.

10pinitis: There isn't anything wrong with the backends actually. We inspected the lanes after they were oiled and found the backends to be clean and tacky. The oiling machine is actually a '2-in-1' version that can strip and oil the lanes in one passing.

Dizzle247: Believe me, the ball has little to no effect on these lanes. Even The high-rev bowlers are having trouble getting anything less than a sanded-particle to hook. I've seen mutants, freaks and Icon300s' going as straight as a bluedot on these lanes. Its disgusting.

Bjaardker · « **Reply #6 on:** June 14, 2003, 12:59:33 PM »

quote:
10ITP: Isn't 40feet kinda long for a normal house condition. I don't know about the trends in your area, but over here in Asia a normal house oil tends to run anywhere from 35-38 feet. 40feet oilings are usually reserved for tournaments.

It all depends on where you bowl.

The place that I normally bowl has a shot VERY similar to the 39' sport pattern from "The Foundation" (foundation300.com) Same pattern with just a touch less oil on the outsides. They've recently been receiving complaints though, so they just shortened the pattern & are considering changing ratios too.

However its not really all that uncommon to find a place with oil buffed to 40.
As a matter of fact, the PBA even has a chart of the "normal" house pattern showing it as such.

http://www.pba.com/laneconditions/default.asp?ID=15

Either way... I wish you the best of luck!

T-GOD · « **Reply #7 on:** June 14, 2003, 01:39:57 PM »

Flapjack, a helicopter release won't hook on any condition..!! Try the American way of releasing the ball. =:^D

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #8 on:** June 14, 2003, 02:27:33 PM »

One of the places I go lays the oil down to 29 ft heavy and buffed to 43. The lanes are old wood lanes that are so worn that even when the resurface the lanes you can still see somewhat of a track so he has to put that much oil down.

I would suggest one of 2 things. 1st, talk to the lane man and see if he can program in a shot for a few of the league bowlers to come practice on and see if it is liked more---I would say that 34-36ft buffed to 40 would work well. *2nd--maybe they are oiling the outsides too far. All of the oiling machines, including the newer ones have a "wic" that is set to cover the different numberbed boards. For instance---speaking in terms for a right hander..there is usually a wic that covers 15 to 15boards....then 14 board to 10 board....then one for 9-7 boards and another that covers the last 6 boards.
If they care oiling too far on the outside the ball will not move at all. I would suggest cutting the oil back on the last 2 wics...9-7 boards and 6-1 boards. The 9-7 boards should only be oiled to 12 ft and buffed the rest of the way, the 6-1 boards should only be oiled for the first 8ft and buffed the rest of the way.

goodluck

10 In The Pit · « **Reply #9 on:** June 14, 2003, 05:43:27 PM »

I definitely agree that 40 feet on synthetics is too long, but that is the BEST length that I see! On my men's leagues, the same house runs 42 feet. And, last season, we were bowling on as long as 46 feet in the same house on a different lane conditioner. The house owner/manager doesn't like to see the lanes go through a drying transition, and I can assure you that they don't break down like they are currently run. I'll start out the set on one line, then I'll likely move a board or two or three to the right to compensate for carrydown....then by the end of the set, I'm right back to where I started the set at. However, when he was running 46 feet, the shot started out best and went steadily downhill....as the carrydown piled up, it only got more miserable.

TwoFourEightNineNine · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2003, 01:16:37 AM »

I bowled in a center that recently changed from guardian to the Brunswick Pro-Anvilane surface. I no longer bowl in this center because I have recently moved, but do remember the conditions being rather difficult and/or inconsistent upon this transition period.

During this same time, the center purchased a Kegel Kustodian machine- "a stripping, and oiling in one pass lane machine". It took a couple tries from the Kegel Tech Support guys and the mechanics to find a perfect match for the perfect china wall (I worked there for a while, and hoped that a wall will bring more lineage for the company). Well, they figured it out. The customers were happy (but i liked the difficulty, cause I was making better shots knowing i had less room out there. BUT THAT'S NOT BUSINESS! customers want scores!). The same house shot is there today.

If the house shot for this lane surface was 40 feet, gee, I would say that's quite long... especially considering how hard this kind of surface is. Again, you have to remember that the guys that run the center will need time to figure all of that out.

Pretty soon, all of the people will be shooting 300's and the complaints will come back to the management concerning how easy the shot is. Then, the proprietor toughens it up a bit... then it's the center's fault if they didn't carry that 10-pin even if they had missed their spot by 15 boards at 45' down the lane! It always works that way!

Just some stuff.
--------------------
-Jeremy Vitug
BallReviews.com Burning Sensations Bowling Team
If you're not down with the Sensations, just BOUNCE!

NevadaBowl · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2003, 01:00:23 PM »

The question I have is... are the bowlers that usually lead the leagues still leading the leagues? Sure, the averages may be down and that is a big deal to a lot of people, but are bowlers still beating the people that they have always beaten? I don't really care if a condition shreds my average...my concern is what it's doing to everyone else. If the big guys are still the big guys, then there is really no complaint from me, even though the scores may be frustrating.

A small side note... I never turn my back on any serious 'helicopter' bowler. They may look odd, but sad experience has told me that the 'X' on the scoreboard is still an 'X'.

Author Topic: Whats with the damn lanes?!? (Read 5210 times)

Rev-less

Whats with the damn lanes?!?

10 In The Pit

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

charlest

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

michelle

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

da Shiv

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

Rev-less

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

Bjaardker

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

T-GOD

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

10 In The Pit

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

TwoFourEightNineNine

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?

NevadaBowl

Re: Whats with the damn lanes?!?