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Author Topic: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!  (Read 1762 times)

a_ak57

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Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« on: October 02, 2004, 03:35:48 AM »
How much difference 1/8" right lateral thumb pitch can make!!  I just got my bruiser thumb redrilled with 1/8" right lateral....

BEFORE:
no pitches
maybe 175-200 rpm
16 mph pin deck speed
20' loft
no repeatablility

And AFTER!:
1/8" lateral thumb pitch to the right
at least 300 rpm, not sure, maybe more
17 mph pin deck speed
3' loft
easily repeatable, and easy to change hand positions

AND, I'm not even hitting up on the ball!

INcredible.......go from horrible looking stroker-ish shot, to a high-end tweener.  Wish I had a vid of before, so I could show you after, it's mind-boggling....Anyways, I did okay....172-179-148.......I couldn't make spares for CRAP, since only my bruiser was redrilled this way, so I couldn't throw my spare ball.  It's not easy, flattening your wrist to have the ball hook 10 boards when you're used to it going straight......Anyways, once the spare ball (and my diesel particle/power groove) redrilled, I will be disappointed if I don't average at LEAST 175 this season (my second).  Hopefully more like 185.

Just thought I'd share, what an AMAZING difference having a properly fitted ball can make!  If I remember, I might try to get a vid up, one of me using and old ball, and the new one, so you can see the difference.  If I remember.
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ANDY
There is doing in not doing what you weren't doing but doing in what you weren't doing to do what you were doing but not doing and doing as well

So don't do it!


Edited on 10/2/2004 5:52 PM

 

a_ak57

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2004, 06:01:23 PM »
No comments?

Just thought I'd show some evidence, that a proper fitting ball is the BIGGEST difference you can make....
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ANDY
There is doing in not doing what you weren't doing but doing in what you weren't doing to do what you were doing but not doing and doing as well

So don't do it!

a_ak57

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2004, 07:33:58 PM »
Um, no, my thumb constantly being torn up.  I was getting to the point I couldn't bowl more than 3 games, since my thumb would hurt really bad.
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ANDY
There is doing in not doing what you weren't doing but doing in what you weren't doing to do what you were doing but not doing and doing as well

So don't do it!

TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2004, 08:47:00 PM »
Yea man, Im still throwing unfitting balls and hitting up like mad!!!
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!

a_ak57

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2004, 08:59:51 PM »
Oh whoops, thought you said scores.

But yeah, I'm mostly happy with the whole pain-free thing, now I can bowl more than 3 games .....The revs and carry is an added bonus.
--------------------
ANDY
There is doing in not doing what you weren't doing but doing in what you weren't doing to do what you were doing but not doing and doing as well

So don't do it!

LuckyLefty

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2004, 12:12:32 AM »
In bowling lateral under palm pitch(right for a righty) is similar to a strong grip in golf!

Bill Taylor does not give percentages but says almost no one is lateral left as a righty!  (not everyone).

In golf more great golf has been played with a stronger rather than weaker grip grip and almost always those that are successful in breaking into the "sub 80 class every time I play club have a strong grip"

Currently Tiger Woods is on the verge of screwing up the greatest carreer in golf by switching from a strong grip to a weak grip mid carreer.  The number of players who have been really great for a long period of time with a weak grip in golf number about 1(Johnny Miller).

So it is in bowling.  Most righties need some right lateral thumb pitch most lefties need some left lateral pitch.

A little anecdote.  A friend and I were talking about this and he said.  "Oh yes, thumb lateral!"  "A great bowler around here was on a hot streak where he couldn't shoot under 700 for weeks at a time and then he'd have a bad night and shoot 660."

"Well like many he wanted to get better, so he heard the popular thing was (almost the politically correct thing in bowling now) was the lateral out or left lateral for a righty".  "So he tried it."
"After a month I saw him and asked him how the change was going" "The fellow replied...."GREAT".  "He said I love the look of the ball on the lanes and I have never rolled it better"  "The friend of mine a great believer in this guy said, "So what did you shoot last night".  "The fellow replied, 530!".
"But things just didn't go right for me".  "I'll get them next".

Again:

"How'd it go?"  The great local bowler, "I had 580!, I'm starting to really loev this roll!"  My friend ..."What are you averaging?  He said about 201 and he was down a little from 228 but would soon have it".

Another month.  My friend.."How's that new grip working out?"  Ummmmmm, the reply"I've switched back!"  "How you shootin?" "haven't been below 700 in a month!!"

REgards,

Luckylefty
One can actually usually tell just by wathching whether a person has the proper amount of thumb lateral right pitch or too little or too much just by watching the armswing thru the release area, in relation to the starting path of the ball.

An arm that heads to the outside of the shot or right of the actual ball starting path is too much lateral right for the righty.

An arm that heads inside the starting path is often too little right lateral thumb pitch or even left pitch with the thumb calling for right pitch.

Lastly an arm that goes properly dead up the starting path of the ball has a precision fit and able to go either way, outside or inside the path with the bowling arm as desired to encourage hook or fade!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS we have a guy around here who knows nothing about bowling, pitches, grips, 2 and 1 adjustments etc and he has picked up a ball from a friend and never redrilled the ball.  Just uses it!  He has so much more right lateral for his thumb(coke bottle test) than he really needs it is not funny.  

He also has so much area on our lanes to strike I can't believe it.
He is a big strong kid who's arm sweeps right of the balls path by quite bit and he has so much area it is unbelievable!  He had a 800 in last few months and actually it was an 837.  Two weeks ago shot 300.

Think Tish Johnson if you want to picture what his armswing looks like!
This guy is using about 5/16 right lateral to bowl with and his thumb calls for about 1/8 right.  In other words too much.  It seems too much works better than too little in both of the above sports!

REgards,

Luckylefty

Edited on 10/3/2004 0:11 AM

Edited on 10/3/2004 0:19 AM
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

dirtbikebowler

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2004, 01:47:54 AM »
i cant even believe u woudl keep bowling when by the 3rd game ur thumb was torn up and not have it fixed asap.
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Tom Kelleys Pro Shop


a_ak57

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2004, 11:00:38 AM »
Wow, nice post LL.  I originally found out my problem, when I heard of the coke can test.  When I did the test and found out I needed the lateral, everything became clear.

Dirtbikebowler, well I was using new skin and stuff, that would work out well enough, but like I said, my bowling wasn't helped much from it.  I wouldn't really want to shoot more than 6 games.  But now, I could bowl at least 20 if I wanted, likely more, like I used to be able to do.
--------------------
ANDY
There is doing in not doing what you weren't doing but doing in what you weren't doing to do what you were doing but not doing and doing as well

So don't do it!

rabbit_sla

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2004, 11:24:54 AM »
I read about the coke can test and was wondering what it is.  Could you guys please explain this to me because I have not heard of it.  Thanks
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rabbit_sla

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2004, 11:24:56 AM »
I read about the coke can test and was wondering what it is.  Could you guys please explain this to me because I have not heard of it.  Thanks
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It takes a man to be a dad, so that makes me a man twice!

scotts33

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2004, 11:36:01 AM »
quote:
Currently Tiger Woods is on the verge of screwing up the greatest carreer in golf by switching from a strong grip to a weak grip mid carreer. The number of players who have been really great for a long period of time with a weak grip in golf number about 1(Johnny Miller).



LL--David Duval has changed from one of the strongest grips in golf to a weaker one.  What about that?  Sure seems he's playing better than he once did...like the last year and half.

Scott

Edited on 10/3/2004 11:29 AM
Scott

TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2004, 12:05:43 PM »
quote:
i cant even believe u woudl keep bowling when by the 3rd game ur thumb was torn up and not have it fixed asap.
--------------------

Tom Kelleys Pro Shop


You gotta remember though, WE'RE POOR! All my equipment, literally ALL of it, has a different grip, different size thumb holes, different spans, different size finger inserts, and different pitches and etc. IM POOR! I dont even have the money to go get my new ball drilled, you know how much torture that is!!!
--------------------
16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!

TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2004, 03:10:41 PM »
Bob you've got NO IDEA how much I would absolutely adore (yes i said adore, thats how much i want to) to work in a pro shop, but the one around here, the guy who runs it, well simply put I hate him. He overprices, and I couldnt work for a guy like that. Not to mention he's an a-hole, and wouldnt let me work there, plus I wouldnt wanna learn from him anyways. I am, however, going to try to ask around at the nearest alley that has a pro shop. And no, I cant drive yet.
--------------------
16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!

LuckyLefty

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Re: Wow, an INCREDIBLE difference!!
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2004, 04:20:47 PM »
The great grips in golf are usually between two and two and 1/2 knuckles of the lead hand showing(left for a righty).  Nicklaus, Watson, 2 1/2 knuckles.

Some great golf was obviously played by Johnny Miller with his one knuckle grip and also by Greg Norman with a 1 1/2 knuckle grip.  Nick Faldo was also in the 2 knuckle or weaker grip range. But that is about it!  Johhny Miller was the best of any of em for knowing the compensation for working the ball both ways with a weak grip while Norman could never pull off a hook under pressure and couldn't figure out why.  Also Ben Hogan when he went to a fade played in the two knuckle area.

David Duval has been an anomoly along with Paul Azinger as two players with 4 knuckle grips who predominately played a block fade.  Duval who along with John Daly and Azinger have had the strongest grips on tour for years.

Duval was considered by some to be the best driver on tour for about 5 years.
A 4 knuckle grip, an open stance and then a rotation of the head thru impact that at the moment of impact had his chin pointing in the 3 to 4 inches in front of the ball and his left shoulder open to the path of the club leading to a block fade right down the middle.  One who is aware of one of the greatest instructionlal series of all time, called the "Mutual exclusive factors" by tour star Dick Lotz would say that in golf two wrongs do equal a right but not 1 wrong or 3!

Somewhere along the line it was noted he hurt his back or neck.  I forget which  and he started hitting various curves at unexpected times.  I don't know if he stopped rotating his head in front of the ball or what as all of a sudden when you miss the cut every time you are not seen much!

However, I have heard that he is playing better and has weakened his grip.
Whether this means he is now moved from 4 to 2 1/2 or from 4 to 1 knuckle I do not know.  Would a weakening of the grip from 4 to 2 1/2 knuckles now be called weak or would it be called "weaker than the strongest grip on tour"?

In relating back to bowling a 1/8 lateral under palm is near analgous to a 2 knuckle grip in golf.  However more importantly this statistic relates more to   what is the proper anatomical grip for you.  In golf it is often determined by  how does the lead hand hang when standing relaxed with your hands by your side just touching the front of your pants.  More back of palm facing out a stronger grip and less back of palm a weaker grip.

In bowling it is the fitting ball or the the coke bottle test.
Oh yeah grap a coke bottle naturally.  Where is tip of your thumb pointing.

Index finger = 1/8 lateral out pitch(left for a righty)
Middle finger 1 /8 lateral under palm pitch(right for a righty)
RIng finger 3/8 lateral under palm pitch (right for a righty).

In both sports the measure of a great grip is when you swing your arm slightly to the right of your intended target does the hook increase(for a righthander in golf and bowling)?  If not you continue to strengthen the left hand in golf or increase your lateral under pitch in bowling.  Once you find this sweet spot  you can move the ball both ways with ease around this YOUR anatomical sweet spot which is slightly strong to dead neutral.  

REgards,

Luckylefty  
In golf moving the ball both ways is hook or fade, in bowling one means moving the ball both ways is more hook if you miss right or less hook if you pull!
PS double bonus.  Now you can break 75 everyday just from reading above.
It only took me 10 years to figure this out playing golf.  You get it from reading a paragraph!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana